Minefield

[Stalker0]

So I wanted to pull this discussion out of the 4/14 thread so we don't clog that thread.

Lets discuss current and alternate options for the minefield.

Some of the current ideas on the table:

• Naval units in your border take X damage.
• Naval units adjacent to your naval units in your border take X damage.
• Naval units in your border have a Y% chance of taking X damage.
• Naval units in your border have a Y% chance to drop to 1 hp.
• Naval units entering your border take X damage, but no further damage for remaining.
• Naval units entering your borders lose their movement (Great Wall style).

One simple idea we could do:

• +X% City RCS against naval units

As the city attack is the summary for all of the cities defenses (from boiling oil off of walls to advanced rockets from the military base), it makes sense to include the minefield as another extension of the ranged city attack. At that point it might be worth renaming the building to Coastal Fortress if we went that route.

 

[FyreFly_]

One simple idea we could do:

• +X% City RCS against naval units

As the city attack is the summary for all of the cities defenses (from boiling oil off of walls to advanced rockets from the military base), it makes sense to include the minefield as another extension of the ranged city attack. At that point it might be worth renaming the building to Coastal Fortress if we went that route.

I really like the idea of a Coastal Fortress. What if it looked something like this?

• +X% City RCS against naval units
  
• Naval units entering your border take X damage, but no further damage for remaining.
• Naval units entering your borders lose their movement (Great Wall style).

 

[azum4roll]

I really like the idea of a Coastal Fortress. What if it looked something like this?

• +X% City RCS against naval units
  
• Naval units entering your border take X damage, but no further damage for remaining.
• Naval units entering your borders lose their movement (Great Wall style).

That's just brokenly strong. Do you seriously think the Great Wall isn't good enough that a normal building should have its function and do more?

My take:

• +X City CS
• Enemy naval units get a debuff: -1 movement and take 5 more damage from attacks, when starting their turn within the working radius of a city (stacks with other debuffs, but not with itself). Debuff lasts one turn.
  • No immediate dangers going into enemy territory, but you have to pull back next turn or suffer the consequences
• No strategic cost

 

[Tekamthi]

not in the OP list, and perhaps too costly to system resources, but i'd prefer if minefield generated some kind of 'naval mine' improvement in empty water tiles within city's range, and have these improvements confer the damage rather than the minefield building itself... say 1 improvement generates every turn city is above 80% hp or something like this

 

[Stalker0]

not in the OP list, and perhaps too costly to system resources, but i'd prefer if minefield generated some kind of 'naval mine' improvement in empty water tiles within city's range, and have these improvements confer the damage rather than the minefield building itself... say 1 improvement generates every turn city is above 80% hp or something like this

Not exactly what your asking for, but we did throw around an idea of conferring powers to "sea improvements". So for example if your going with the little citadel concepts, all atolls and fishing nets become "little citadels".

The issue is the randomness of sea resources, but its an option that would also help inform on the defensiveness of certain positions. Example a lot of later game islands have lots of sea resources but normally are extremely difficult to defend, but a minefield boost could make all of that fish into fortresses that help protect.

 

[Tekamthi]

Not exactly what your asking for, but we did throw around an idea of conferring powers to "sea improvements". So for example if your going with the little citadel concepts, all atolls and fishing nets become "little citadels".

The issue is the randomness of sea resources, but its an option that would also help inform on the defensiveness of certain positions. Example a lot of later game islands have lots of sea resources but normally are extremely difficult to defend, but a minefield boost could make all of that fish into fortresses that help protect.

interesting idea, though yes, somewhat the inverse effect i imagined. Thematically, strikes me as somewhat jarring that mine would be deployed only in areas with high commerce.

In this quasi-realism sense, some of the OP effects listed might find a better fit by bringing back civ 3's 'coastal fortress' and splitting the benefits between 2 buildings rather than just minefield

 

[Stalker0]

Another thought would be to confer damage or bonuses or XYZ to ships adjacent to the city.

One of the "issues" right now is the amount of adjacent water has a monstrous effect on city defense against navy. 1 water tile your pretty good, 2 water tiles...eh ok, 3 water tiles you can kiss that city goodbye on higher difficulties. If the minefield actually turned adjacent water into a defensive advantage it would help to counteract that.

 

[Tekamthi]

yeah gotcha, the 1 tile islands are particularly impossible to fortify... I generally found all my cities at the end of bays etc. to maximize defense against naval.

maybe then a 'minefield' that just does damage and a 'coastal fortification' that allows land units to enter tiles adjacent to land unembarked.. I'm not in love with the CS% bonus to defending units, though somehow i find a CS% reduction to attacker a little more satisfying

Of the OP list, I prefer this:

Naval units in your border take X damage.

imo damage should incur when player ends turn in enemy border (as opposed to at start of turn)