Mobilization

[Paul#42]

We had this subject in one of those other threads. I guess it's worth an own because there's a lot to discuss.
And the subject is urgent imo.

prerequisites
The Rules
We are at war and we know Nationalism. We have all prerequisites fulfilled.

We have all important infrastructure buildings built or started in our core metropolises. Who's missing anything?

We'll enter war mode in a couple of turns and need to produce lots of units.

the back door
It only ends if BABE agrees to sign peace.
They migth use that to annoy us - but it could hurt them.

Either BABE signs peace quickly after we retook SCI - or we need to press on with our superior forces. The better if we build them more quickly.

However if they are really mean and smart (one of these they are for sure ), they could build a settler and hide him in GONGland (or FREEland or SABERland) and we could spend the rest of the game searching for it - without getting into peace mode again...
Unless we are mean and dow and sop (sign of peace) another civ to end it. That would require a real friend...

effects
We can build military like in Golden Age. The Chamber and The Treasury could build one-turn-bombers or tanks. The Admirality could build two-turn destroyers.
Workers, settlers, rax and harbors can also be built - at current slow rate.
Only fighting units will get the bonus shields.
Transports, workers, settlers, buildings - all these will be built at current rate.

Con: Cultural buildings will only gain half the culture in that span. But we won't beat GONG anyway, will we?

decision to take
1. So, should we switch soon? Now?

2. Pros and Cons?
Con: All others see what we are doing.

3. Which buildings (not currently built) in which towns should we build before entering war mode?
universities in The Pier and Chamsuri's Cove.
market in The Squeeze

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, the requirement is to make peace, not to make peace with BABE.

It's a little gamey, but we COULD declare war on our ally and then make peace and drop out of mobilization.

Big problem with going to mobilization is that we can't make prebuilds for Internet/SETI, cause we can't build most wonders.

 

[donsig]

Mobilizing is iffy. I'd say definitely not just for retaking SCI. My hope is that after we retake SCI (or after BABE is relieved of all their eleven tile islands) then we make peace with them to attack FREE. At that point we might want to consider mobilizing. Does mobilization affect our research rate or unit support costs? We can only afford so big an army, navy and air force anyway. And computers and miniaturization are not all that far away for SETI and the Internet. I'm inclined to hold off on mobilizing until those wonders are built.

 

[Paul#42]

well, the requirement is to make peace, not to make peace with BABE.

It still runs the risk that even our "allies" might find it convenient to leave us in war mode.
I just wanted to express that we might be at other's mercy.

Big problem with going to mobilization is that we can't make prebuilds for Internet/SETI, cause we can't build most wonders.

Well one still could prebuild the shunned wonder US.
Palace should be ruled out, right?

Mobilizing is iffy. I'd say definitely not just for retaking SCI. My hope is that after we retake SCI (or after BABE is relieved of all their eleven tile islands) then we make peace with them to attack FREE. At that point we might want to consider mobilizing.

Now that would excactly be a point were we could leave mobilization mode and discuss when we re-enter. I'd argue exactly the other way around
I'd just want to get our bombers more quickly and use a GA like boost to penetrate BABE harder before they can set up a defense (OT: talk about defense ).

Does mobilization affect our research rate or unit support costs? We can only afford so big an army, navy and air force anyway.

No effects on commerce and unit support afaic.
Just the minor side effect on culture preventing GONG from using this tool

 

[AutomatedTeller]

yes, we can prebuild it, but we might get stuck in mobilization and unable to build the other wonders.

Of course, that DOES mean that we'll be mobilized and looking for targets.

 

[donsig]

Now that's a catch. Amazing.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Should we talk to SABER about this? Tell them we want to mobilize to prep for an assault on BABE to take our island back,but worry we won't be able to get out of mobilization and would like to arrange to declare on them and make peace to get out?

 

[dl123654]

IIRC we do not need to be at war to mobilize.

I think we need to build the 2 wonders and apollo first, (we can't build apollo in mobilization but we can build space parts)

At that point we can can be in mobilization for the rest of game if we want.

 

[Paul#42]

I conclude that nobody thinks we should mobilize immeditely.

So I play now...

 

[Niklas]

If we can build space ship parts but not Apollo during Mobilization, then we should definitely wait with Mobilizing until we have Apollo built. After that, is there any reason at all not to stay mobilized for the rest of the game?

 

[donsig]

Niklas, I thought the plan was to complete our spaceship the turn after we finish Apollo? If we manage that then mobilization is moot. Does the elimination of GONG mean we should alter our plan? This is something we must decide upon soon. We were giving space flight a low research priority under the original plan. If we want to mobilize soon (and can't count on a friend to help us get out of mobilization) then we need to get space flight soon and get Apollo started.

 

[Niklas]

Indeed, I should have been more clear. If we want to mobilize then we should re-prioritize Space Flight and finish Apollo early(er). AFAIU there are no spies in our lands (embassy is prereq for that right?) so there should be no difference in how much of a target we become.

I guess it's a question of how much we think Mobilization protects us compared to how much more of a target we become by researching Space Flight earlier.

 

[dl123654]

You can plant a spy without an embassy

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

You can plant a spy without an embassy

Hm, you may be right about this as I have used spies often, but I also haven't played many games without embassies everywhere asap. We should find out for sure and maybe test it in a scenario to find out unless others know for sure.

 

[donsig]

Do we have to be at war to mobilize?

 

[Paul#42]

no.
We just have to end a war to end the mode.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

You can plant a spy without an embassy

I finally found an old save of mine I could test this on and dl123654 is right, you do not need an embassy to plant spies. This means that either Saber or Free could already have a spy on us. I think this PBEM type game would be the same as SP and a notification of any failed spy attempts or plants would be given at the start of our turn. I certainly hope so, but I'm not sure and I've no way to check this.

 

[donsig]

BABE's settler has arrived!

Now we must consider the timing of our mobilization and demobilization:

• We must complete and actually build any prohibited city improvement before we mobilize. If we don't then all shields in those bins will be converted to military builds.
• If we mobillize while at peace then we need to start a war before we can make peace to demobilize. This will take some time since war has to be declared, then a peace offer sent and then accepted.
• We could end mobilization by eliminated BABE's settler but then that ends our ability to mobilize and demobilize at will.
• If BABE declares war on us we'd get war happiness. Would having the settler in our territory give us war weariness eventually?

 

[peter grimes]

We've probably already gone over this, but...

Babe's settler won't self-destruct if we declare war on them, will it?

 

[Niklas]

No, it won't.

One thing to consider is that we're at war with FREE. Actually, come to think about it, maybe that's the reason FREE doesn't want peace yet. They may be accumulating shields for a one-turn switch to Normalcy to complete a bunch of buildings, then immediately Mobilizing again and then ending the war against us to be able to switch out of it at will. They can switch out now since GONG was eliminated.

PrinceMyshkin suggested in the preturn thread that we rush-complete all outstanding infra builds in 4 turns and mobilize 5 turns from now. Is that early enough? Another option would be to
* Mobilize next turn (to complete the Nuclear Plant in TI first), and accumulate shields through unit prebuilds.
* Switch back out again in 3 turns for one turn of Normalcy
* Then Mobilizing again in 4 turns

Are there any drawbacks of doing that?

Generally staying at war with BABE, with them declaring, doesn't sound like a bad idea...