[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

ollej said:
Great mod! (I did not play the original civilization since I dicovered FFHone year ago...)

After playing a long time with several races I recently tries the Kuriotates. The mega cities and the settlements are a very nice idea.

However I have some problems, with the settlements. I'm aware that the cost for the megacities and no maintenance for settlements are no production etc for settlements. But my settlements stay a population 1 and culture 0, so not growing and producing culture at all. I thought that it would be able to build at least monuments (and city walls) in settlements? And tey should grow although very slow?
With no culture production the settlements are not of much use near rival territories, unless you deploy them directly on a ressource.
Any hints (I#m using 33g)?

Regards
ollej

Settlements are working as intended: population always stays at 1 and they can't produce anything. You use them to claim territory and secure access to a particular resource.

There have been suggestions to allow settlements to build a few things, but I don't know if Kael's planning any changes in the next version. My recollection is that in earlier version of FfH, settlements could build culture, wealth, or research, so you would get some productivity from them.

One thing you can do is sacrifice priests to build temples in your settlements, so they'll generate some culture.
 
Great mod! (I did not play the original civilization since I dicovered FFHone year ago...)

After playing a long time with several races I recently tries the Kuriotates. The mega cities and the settlements are a very nice idea.

However I have some problems, with the settlements. I'm aware that the cost for the megacities and no maintenance for settlements are no production etc for settlements. But my settlements stay a population 1 and culture 0, so not growing and producing culture at all. I thought that it would be able to build at least monuments (and city walls) in settlements? And tey should grow although very slow?
With no culture production the settlements are not of much use near rival territories, unless you deploy them directly on a ressource.
Any hints (I#m using 33g)?

Regards
ollej

Further to the sacrifice priests to get temples suggestion, I think you would also be able to create Bear Totems (sacrifice a bear) and note that the world spell also adds culture to settlements.

With the Kuriotate part of the difficulty with them is to get the mix of Megacity/Settlement locations correct, and brings up all sorts of mini-quandaries such as do I get a second production city up now, or hold off for a bit longer to see what tiles are still hidden from me?...and...Will a settlement here be enough to stem the tide of Clan expansion?
 
actually it's a dancing bear you get from sacrificing a bear. the bear totem is a late-ish game building that lets you build berserkers ;)
 
FYI: the next major version of FfH2 (0.34) will be released on Friday October 10th. The changelog will be posted on October 3rd.

seZ has been working hard on making this version look incrediable and he did a great job. We also incorporated a lot of work from Marnok's explorable lairs mod and Vehem and Xienwolf's work in Fall Further. More specific information will be revealed on the 3rd.
 
FYI: the next major version of FfH2 (0.34) will be released on Friday October 10th. The changelog will be posted on October 3rd.

So, it will be released on the last day I can withdraw from a class. Are you trying to convince me to drop CEE3000 a second time so I'll have some time for FfH again?
 
So, it will be released on the last day I can withdraw from a class. Are you trying to convince me to drop CEE3000 a second time so I'll have some time for FfH again?

I thought you knew that "Heaven" was a college diploma.
 
A few suggestions. Octapus Overlords are severly underpowered atm, still very cool (IMO their the coolest religion in the game) but they went from one of the best religions and a good one for every race to use, to the second worst for war waging (Unless your fighting with a LOT of water) I think that they should have more on land abilities, I understand their a water based religion, but they should have some more land viability.

Drowns SUCK, their cool and all and do more damage than warriors and can also walk on water, however their cost is rediculous and completely pointless to build when you can build a cheaper warrior, you can build a little under 3 warriors per drown.

OO needs a religion specific civic, they are so twisted and different from other religions, (excluding ashen vale LOL) it just seems fitting to have a civic for them and them only. Also a building that allows all living units to waterwalk regardless of class would be fitting. (maybe just add that to the civic)

Stygian (or whatever) gaurds are cool and while being only 1 strength stronger than maceman, they can not only walk on water but also heal themselves in the process. They work great.

Lunatics (BLEH) once a great unit is now terribad. They have an average strength,terrible defence and a crappy special ability now, what used to increase your offence by a great ammount, increase movement and drasticly reduce defence every other turn (50% chance) now gives you a WHOPPING 20% strength, 1 extra movement, and a 3% chance to turn into a barbarian every turn. Which makes this unit, WORTHLESS.
I have 3 proposals to fix lunatics. 1.) Put them back to their original state. 2.) Make them a heavy shock troop with terrible defence and high chance of turning into barbarians, for example make strength 7 def 4 (no defencive bonuses), and a 50% chance a turn to gain 2 additional movement points, 25% strength and ignore ALL defencive bonuses gained by an enemy when attacking which would make these guys great at attacking cities solo (which IMO is what they should be, city shock classes) but have a 30% chance of turning into a barbarian unit when outside of your city borders. (Removed after combat too) These numbers can of course be tweeked.
3.) Turn them into major offencive borderline suicide troops. 8 strength 3 defence 50% chance per turn to gain THREE additional movement points gain blitz and gain 40% more strength, with a 40% chance per turn to turn into a barbarian. Making them the type of troop you want to keep away from your borders at all times, while wreaking havok at the enemies. ALL OF THE ABOVE IDEAS allow the troop to use bronze iron and mithril.

Speakers need to have a better channeling 3 ability, maybe an additional one. Possibly something that doesnt involve water but rather has to do with twisted and or cruel actions.

Anyways those are my ideas, I have one more sugestion, it would be awesome if each religion had their own special T4 unit, tarquline (I think thats the name) had a GREAT mod that did this, adding special units for all religions. This would add more flavor to the game and improve it overall.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: I forgot to metion a few things. There was a GREAT mod created (it doesnt work with the newer version of FFH2) that allowed the AI to be able to build mages and archmages directly from the city and also giving them free starting random promotions, including 1-5 combat, spell extension and giving them random spell spheres (usually with one sphere maxed at 3) in case you dont know already (some people dont) the AI doesnt know how to upgrade their adepts to mages and mages to archmages properly, they also dont know how and which promotions to give them, which gimps them. This mod completely fixed that problem and its so hard to play without it. I suggest that you make this mod into a official FFH option that can be toggled at the game creation screen (like the blessing of amathon and end of winter ones)

Another thing I forgot to say was summoned units need to have no upkeep cost, seriously. What the hell is a skeleton or fire elemental going to eat? They should be free for 2 reasons. 1. Its logical 2. Its a pain to have to delete summoned units before the turn ends to save on the upkeep cost.
 
OO needs a religion specific civic, they are so twisted and different from other religions, (excluding ashen vale LOL) it just seems fitting to have a civic for them and them only. Also a building that allows all living units to waterwalk regardless of class would be fitting. (maybe just add that to the civic)
Actually, rather than a building, what about providing each religion with its own world spell/enchantment?
Stuff like:
-OO would turn enemy units inside OO territory insane (1% for each of them every turn unless magic resistant or loyal to become a barbarian).
-Fellowship of the Leaves would create forests in all tiles (spreading forests like hell terrain spreads)
-Ashen Veil already has Hyborem arriving and spoiling everything around so maybe they don't need more, but +Armageddon counter stuff makes sense
-Runes of Kilmorph could add 1 commerce from each mine in their territory
-...
This could be tied to the building of the Shrine of the religion or be something separate.
 
I must say I quite like the slight insanity risk for ennemies in territory. It would fit perfectly as an effect of the Shrine, in the style of the Empyrean.
Turning them into barbarians out of the blue is too powerful, though. I'd rather see them all get a temporary insanity promotion while in your territory, with the chance to become crazed each turn.
That means that if a valuable unit becomes crazed you can attack something quickly to avoid the risk of turning barbarian. The crazed promotion could also be a temporary version that you lose when you leave OO territory, so you can save your mages and other weak units without fighting.

As for lunatics, I often get the OO but never considered building those. They're not powerful enough to be worth the risk, IMHO.
 
Does the world spell for the Kazad that updates terrain actually work? I just tried it and I got the extra money for mines but it doesn't appear any terrain updated.
 
Basically assassins attack the unit that is assigned defender last otherwise, so try bringing some warriors or something. Other than that, I believe this is the function of assassins. They are there to counter you from just moving a stack of mages in with a couple of good defenders and rain hell loose from a hilltop.

Well.. tried that and it's not working, I have put 4 scouts in a stack that also included 2 arcmages and 2 mages, the assasins first went on my arcmages and then on my mages, then on the scounts :mad:

What's going on:confused:
 
Actually it doesn't make sense that assassins go for the weakest unit whatever it is, they should go for the weak mages or healers first.

Your have an improved version of the game, enjoy! :D
 
Its not only raw strength. Some promotions decrease the normal defense chance (channeling 1-3) but increase the chance that assasins attack theis unit.
 
Its not only raw strength. Some promotions decrease the normal defense chance (channeling 1-3) but increase the chance that assasins attack theis unit.

So what is exactly the formula for the assasins? how can I protact certain units from them?


with thanks...
 
by the way, I find it weird that the AI sometimes builds huge stacks of assassins. Assassins should be specialized units for taking out mages and other dangerous units (including other assassins). What about giving them:
- lowered defence-> for flavour and to make the AI understand that they're not rank and file soldiers
- decreased chance to defend a stack-> because that's not what they're meant for and they should be targets for ennemy assassins
(but really, it would make the most sense if you could simply pick your target, even if that involves a pop-up)


Edit: Cross that. I didn't have access to the FfH manual at work and I didn't remember that they had lower defence (good thinking, team! ;)). It would be nice if they also had a lower chance of defending the stack too, though...
Why would an assassin risk his life for others? What about adding to marksman the same lower defence probability effect that the divine and mage promotions have? You want to keep those units for attacking!
 
The second tier assassins can get completely out of hand. In a game I just finished last night I got one (a Devout I think?) to level 25 I think. He had almost every advancement available and usually killed 3 or 4 units a turn (blitz!). Pretty much singlehandedly he took out a whole country's forces except for a few advanced ones. With commando he could cruise around seeking out targets with impunity. The other two second tier ones didn't do nearly so well; things just worked out perfectly for this one guy.

The AI never seems to attack your assassins even when a unit that should be able to spot them is around.

The only limit appeared to be I couldn't load him on a boat so I couldn't get at this one island nation.
 
I dunno if i can post questions and comments here.

But I have played a lot of Fall from heaven 2 since the very early days. I guess I have clocked about 700hrs on this game? that seems a bit much, but i have played a long time...regardless, i've played about 100-200 hrs in the last two months.

Anyways, I play this game with 2 friends; and we always have trouble balancing the game for 3 players...the main problem being that comps get steamrolled by us pretty easily early game So getting a comp near you is a blessing..given time they can compete..but i really wish they would start with or build more warriors early on.

..i think next time we will put Comps on the level above monarch...i remember we all got owned on deity..but usually the human players overwhelm monarch level (that said, i got owned because my first settler died...i got way too far behind after that...guards..don't mean as much when your warriors can't compete with the high level units that spawn.)

However, I am always trying to balance the game so that it doesn't become a warrior rush fest of the nearest comp or human. Last game, my friend got really far ahead because he attacked perpentech and for some reason, even while at war he produced a scout or something and didn't have enough units to take out 5 warriors. Basically comps are free territory if they are close enough..if they are far away they seem to do alright.

We also turned exp to half because promotions are soo strong that military type leader traits are pointless, and the best overall strategy is just to amass units to get exp regardless of what class because exp overwhelms teching. That said, do most people play the game with barbs on? raging barbs seems to allow exp point farming. I find it fun, but at the same time, it makes researching econ trees that rely on workers harder to do.

Anyways, about the lunatics: i think proposal 2 is broken, proposal 3 sounds nice though.

if proposal two was implemented they would be amazing units rendering your defenses near impenetrable at that stage of the game.

I also had a question; i still have not ever founded or used overcouncil or undercouncil..they seem extremely weak compared to other religions..are they any good? I mean most things pale compared to Fellowship anyways (on the maps we're playing...pangea basic...there always seem to be a billion forests...maybe i'm just not flipping the right option..i usually just leave things on random for world generation...but i have never been able to justify taking that tree.

Elves seem completely broken if you have comps at all. Only humans will punish their elven friends by burning forests, so we've basically banned elves because they are ridiculously strong.

Do people find aristocracy and farms more useful for their first city or city states + cottages?

Some world spells seem worthless...i have yet to get more than a unit or two by casting the barb conversion world spell for the Clan of Embers.

Does anyone know when you get stronger wolves with the doviello spell? what str unit do you need. Honestly i've had trouble getting anywhere with barbs against my friends, so i haven't tried it much. I assume raging barbs benefits them the most; but that turns the game into an exp farming fest coupled by mass invasion.

Also, are named locations supposed to spawn mobs even when inside your territory? we had to restart once because fire elementals appeared inside his borders and then stormed the city that turn
 
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