Mountain yields
- Thread starter Hawkwood
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WarKirby
Arty person
Could you be more specific?
Capn Charlie
Chieftain
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Every time I see a peak on the map, I do everything within my power to make sure it is not inside the workable range of any of my cities, to the point of shifting my city plans just to avoid them.
For too long, peaks have been the fly in my BFC ointment, I'd be greatly interested in seeing something done with them, especially if it is arete based. With the new mechanical improvements, I almost never build mines any more, and would like to see that civic worth a damn again.
For too long, peaks have been the fly in my BFC ointment, I'd be greatly interested in seeing something done with them, especially if it is arete based. With the new mechanical improvements, I almost never build mines any more, and would like to see that civic worth a damn again.
No, thanks.
WarKirby
Arty person
I was thinking more along the lines of why? A counter argument. you know, discussion. The kind of thing we have a forum for
Jules.lt
Prince
Mountain ranges are useful as obstacles, but I don't see why they couldn't be mined under some particular conditions: Dwarf + Arete.
As for the yield, I'd give it the same as a mined hill + 1
(including any bonuses that mines get), so there's a point in trying to get them. Maybe enable it with a building that requires Arete.
An alternative would be a lower yield but a higher chance of getting ores when working them, to reflect the fact that you're mining deeper.
It's tempting to say that dwarves should walk over mountains under certain conditions, but the AI would have a lot of trouble using this intelligently, so I'd rather see this staying a Druid-only thing.
As for the yield, I'd give it the same as a mined hill + 1
(including any bonuses that mines get), so there's a point in trying to get them. Maybe enable it with a building that requires Arete.An alternative would be a lower yield but a higher chance of getting ores when working them, to reflect the fact that you're mining deeper.
It's tempting to say that dwarves should walk over mountains under certain conditions, but the AI would have a lot of trouble using this intelligently, so I'd rather see this staying a Druid-only thing.
I agree with this sentiment, but making them useful for one or two civs doesn't break this - for Dwarves, jungles, tundra and ice are still useless.
Dwarves not working peaks is...wrong.
I disagree that this should be available to all civs on Arete, though a bonus to Khazad/Luchuirp peaks here would be fine.
If you were going to give them yield, I agree give it only to the dwarves.
I would make it very low yield, like 1 hammer, and not increase. To make up for this, greatly increase to chance that the worked peak would give a resource that would increase the yield and automatically be hooked up.
I think this most represents the realities of mountain mining. A lot of the time, you could put in huge resources for no or little gain. But, the potential for finding good things may be higher.
In this case, the dwarves would be working a tile at a loss compared to a specialist, knowing that down the road it will be a big gain.
Another option would be to have the peaks tied into to Khazad world spell. In addition to raising hills and giving gold and whatever else it does now, it also gives all mountains in their cultural borders something like "not unpassable to units with dwarven promotion."
Then, dwarves could walk across them, mine them if worker code were changed a bit, perhaps even build cities on them (although the cities would be close to other ones, as they would have to be within the cultural borders anyway.
I would make it very low yield, like 1 hammer, and not increase. To make up for this, greatly increase to chance that the worked peak would give a resource that would increase the yield and automatically be hooked up.
I think this most represents the realities of mountain mining. A lot of the time, you could put in huge resources for no or little gain. But, the potential for finding good things may be higher.
In this case, the dwarves would be working a tile at a loss compared to a specialist, knowing that down the road it will be a big gain.
Another option would be to have the peaks tied into to Khazad world spell. In addition to raising hills and giving gold and whatever else it does now, it also gives all mountains in their cultural borders something like "not unpassable to units with dwarven promotion."
Then, dwarves could walk across them, mine them if worker code were changed a bit, perhaps even build cities on them (although the cities would be close to other ones, as they would have to be within the cultural borders anyway.
WarKirby
Arty person
Snow is useless. Unless you're illians
Desert is useless. unless you're malakim
jungle is useless. Unless you're Mazatl/Cualli (FF)
I think dwarves being able to work mountains is perfectly thematic, and would add a lot to the game.
Jules.lt
Prince
Well don't worry: the middle of the ocean will stay useless.
I mean, dwarves have it hard right now, why not give them a little something like this, especially when it's so flavorful?
Peaks are not tile-shaped unbreakable columns reaching from the core of Erebus to the heavens: they're just peaks, and some people might actually know how to live there...
I mean, dwarves have it hard right now, why not give them a little something like this, especially when it's so flavorful?
Peaks are not tile-shaped unbreakable columns reaching from the core of Erebus to the heavens: they're just peaks, and some people might actually know how to live there...
Tielby
Prince
Oh dear Lord, please no. Then it would be virtually impossible to assault one except with other dwarven, druid or flying units. Way overpowered.
As it is now, it sometimes happens that a barbarian or Hyborem city pops up in the middle of mountains, again making it virtually impossible to eliminate. (Really annoying, when that's the source of hell terrain spread AND can keep building defenders as long as evil units are getting killed somewhere in the world.)
If you make peaks passable to dwarves then dwarven settlers could easily build an impenetrable city. Regardless how badly you're doing in the game, you can be pretty sure you'll never be eliminated (if you do it right). Make peak tiles very useful and you give that civ a non-military reason for doing just that - a LOT.
There are some useful suggestions here, but let's not get carried away.
I want a spell that turns peaks into hills. A tier 3 Earth Spell. Pretty please?
If I get that, the dwarves can get their mountain yields and cities and whatnot.
I think it's been said that this could mess up pathfinding - though I'm not sure how.
Creating peaks obviously causes problems, invalidating existing paths without notifying units following said path. Removing them would only impact existing paths in that it might cause a new optimal path to exist through the depeaked tile - but as this spell would create an unimproved hill this is unlikely. Either way, it shouldn't cause serious problems.
Bear in mind that if you succeed in getting this implemented, Grey Fox will probably hunt you down
I like the "1
for Khazad/Luchuirp, chance of resource spawning" idea, though getting them hooked up without an improvement or road might be challenging.How about "1
for Khazad/Luchuirp, if work for 'long enough' get a mine on the tile (+2 )"?
WarKirby
Arty person
There be dwarves untouchable in the underhome.
Methuselah
King
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Mailbox
King
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Agreeing with this sentiment.
WarKirby
Arty person
I don't understand how new mountains appearing would cause pathfinding problems either.
As an example, at the start of a game, send a unit to a random unexplored place, far away. Once it reaches the edge of known lands, the pathfinder just assumes all unexplored tiles as passable, and makes a straight line to the target from there. If the unit finds it's path blocked, it stops and asks for new orders.
doesn't seem problematic.
As an example, at the start of a game, send a unit to a random unexplored place, far away. Once it reaches the edge of known lands, the pathfinder just assumes all unexplored tiles as passable, and makes a straight line to the target from there. If the unit finds it's path blocked, it stops and asks for new orders.
doesn't seem problematic.
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