MP Game - RewriteHistory - 18civ EARTH map historical start position

A reload should be in place for the double move. I suggest a full 24 h grace period for the attacked player to revise his strategy. Zen and Adrian both liked to handle double cheats in their previous posts, and I consider their posts binding.

I support a reload here.
 
I would like to see a reload also, but since he does have two attackers it is still possible for him to be defeated anyway but with him having having at least a chance of being able to defend himself. It is only fair that we do have a well defined DM rule, since we do have a rule of some sorts.

Also having a rule that states you cannot DM when declaring war for the whole turn is good since it gives your opponent time to prepare defence should their be a surprise declaration and the opponent is not able to defend in the given time since their guard is down and not expecting such an attack. This would be good so that the player is given time to play since he would still be going to play as if he is still in peace mode and is expecting to only to need within the timer and play at his normal time, rather than having to play earlier than normal.
 
Reload the GAME please - as we can see we have a majority.

Lets not waste anymore time please.
 
Ok I guess we better have a reload. I still don't think what I did qualifies as a double move for the reasons I stated earlier BUT i didn't clearly define what counts as a double move when I started this game. Sorry I am not more experience with MP; I didn't realise there were alternative definitions. So lets reload and adopt hoplosternum's definition of double move.

In war turns must be played sequentially, but if first mover does not play turn within 10hrs of the beginning of turn later movers may play anyway.

ok?
 
Well it doesn't really matter to me as I'm not involved in the war. I don't really think we need a reload as i still see this as the defending players fault but if the majority go for it then so be it. I'm still a little fuzzy on how the double moves happens despite reading all the posts on it. I need the very simple version. I didn't even know it was possible until yesterday. As I say I take my turn after I receive an emails saying a new turn has started. I'm not logged into the game for more than 5 mins so i'll continue as i have done taking my move when a tew turn is announced. I don't look who's taken their turn already and don't see that changing. I only log into the game once a day and that is trigerred when i get an email to tell me to do so :)
 
Ulfang, if you declare war on a person, you must give the opponent 10 hours to make a move (as posted by Zen). It is very easy to see who has moved either through CivStats or in-game. Look at the list of players. Those that have moved have an aserisk (*) next to their name. The way you are currently playing is fine as long as you are not in war.

I don't really know how to explain a double move any better than what has been posted. Maybe this will help:
Let's say you have already moved this turn and I declare war on you during my moves later in the turn. If the turn advances and I make my move against you before 10 hours has elapsed, I am committing a double move against you. I am taking two turns to your one. When you log in to take our turn, you could be very surprised that you are 1) at war and 2) missing a city because I took it before you even knew what was going on.

you move
I move, declare war
turn advances
I move again before you log in. wreak havoc on your territories (this is the double move)
you log in, say wtf happened?
 
It is a double move, unless the other player can move his side in between another players two sessions. If a player can play two sessions in a row, compared to the opposing player, it IS a double move, no argument there. This is a game, but even chess got rules.
 
It is a double move, unless the other player can move his side in between another players two sessions. If a player can play two sessions in a row, compared to the opposing player, it IS a double move, no argument there. This is a game, but even chess got rules.

Well elkad COULD have moved in between my moves. He just didn't. So which definitition of of a double move are you supporting please be clear.
 
2 hours is still too little, from my humble point of view. There should be a quarantine period between.

I suggest 18 hours between, due to time zone differentials.
 
Well i just know one thing the more the game is down the more we hurt this game!!!!!!!

Host please resume the game :mischief:
 
Ulfang, if you declare war on a person, you must give the opponent 10 hours to make a move (as posted by Zen). It is very easy to see who has moved either through CivStats or in-game. Look at the list of players. Those that have moved have an aserisk (*) next to their name. The way you are currently playing is fine as long as you are not in war.

I don't really know how to explain a double move any better than what has been posted. Maybe this will help:
Let's say you have already moved this turn and I declare war on you during my moves later in the turn. If the turn advances and I make my move against you before 10 hours has elapsed, I am committing a double move against you. I am taking two turns to your one. When you log in to take our turn, you could be very surprised that you are 1) at war and 2) missing a city because I took it before you even knew what was going on.

you move
I move, declare war
turn advances
I move again before you log in. wreak havoc on your territories (this is the double move)
you log in, say wtf happened?

Yea I do understand the reasoning behind it. I didn't really make myself very clear. I understand that two moves were made before the player was able to respond what I mean't was I didn't realise Pitboss worked like that. I thought the point of Pitboss was because the game was live all the time it made the game much quicker to play than PBEM (assuming everyone plays their turns on time of course) I thought the timer was there to make sure people moved within a certain time. What I mean't to say was I don't understand the point of the system if you still have to wait a certain amount of time after the turn has ended before you make your move. It's not a particularluy good system because of that.

I'm usually quite busy so if I log in to play my turn and then end up having to wait several hrs for someone else to move I might not have a chance to log in again before the end of the turn. I tend to play my games/turns etc for about 5-6 hrs after 12am so my point is if I log in at 12 and someone hasn't completed their turn I'd need to process that turn within that window to avoid missing my turn if you see my point? I might not be able to log in for another 24 hrs you see. I didn't realise Pitboss was like this. At least with PBEM when you get your turn you don't need to work out who's moved ;)
 
I'll put the game back up in about 12 hours.

Good to hear. What position are you taking regarding the alledged 'double move'? You are host now so it is up to you decide on the issue.
 
2 hours is still too little, from my humble point of view. There should be a quarantine period between.

I suggest 18 hours between, due to time zone differentials.

18 hrs is too long, some of us have a life outside of civ and can't keep checking all the time to see if the other guy has finally decided to play his turn.

hoplo's suggestion of 10 hrs is more realistic.

But really ladies I think we should face up to the fact this is a simultaneous turn mp pitboss game. danger is its middle name. the only double move rule that makes sense is the prohibition on playing your turn last then on new turn first (in time of war). That's the only double move rule I ever heard of before this storm in a tea cup. If that is too scary for you then go play pbem or single player. :p
 
Due to the global spread of this game's participants and the responsibilities we have to all things outside civ, there's a likely chance that in these cases of war, someone, for whatever reason, won't be able to make their turn. A 20 hour timer coupled with a 10 hour rule, starts to become a 10 hour timer. Which, as we seem to be struggling with a 20 hour timer as is, becomes unreasonable. From my experience, fighting a war with someone in a different timezone can be a daunting task. His playing schedule may not fit with yours and vice versa, and then you end up with a guy not taking his turn until after midnight with the timer set to expire by 5:30 in the morning. And if you go and double move justifying your actions by following a 10 hour rule to the letter, the consequences can be so dire as to dramatically alter the course of the entire game.

Personally, I think it's unfair for me if some civ starts to get too powerful by exploiting an enemy with a double move. And for this reason, I would prefer them to be disallowed altogether, even at a cost of slowing down and even pausing the pace of the game.

I am familiar with two possible solutions to fix the double move problem.

1, we increase the timer in times of war and

2, we have an accomodating host that can reload any non-sequential or missed turns.

I would prefer the second option, although it greatly increases the responsibilities of the host. If we find ourselves in a position similar to my 5:30 AM example, we simply post in the thread and the host reloads at a more convenient time. Yes, it slows things down enormously, but I believe it's the best and fairest way to prevent the occurance of double moves.

The 10 hour rules work for prompt players and I do believe they should serve as a sort of guideline, but in no way used to justify a double move. However, here are times when a double move has no effect on the outcome, and in these occurances i think a double move within the 10 hour rule works fine. From this arises the question of whether or not it changes the turn order, which can have strategic affects (i.e., the espionage civ may prefer to be last if they are sabotaging production, etc.) but if the players involved can come to an agreement, or more likely, not put up a protest, then in these cases a double move is fine.

But again, I'd prefer that consequential double moves be avoided at all costs. Trigger happy players looking to cheat the system affect all of us, not just the immediate parties involved.
 
the only double move rule that makes sense is the prohibition on playing your turn last then on new turn first (in time of war). That's the only double move rule I ever heard of before this storm in a tea cup. If that is too scary for you then go play pbem or single player. :p

So if I'm allied to somebody in game I can move 5 minutes before the end of turn have them move in the last minute, move again when the turn ticks & it's all ok despite my moves being 5 minutes apart ?
You have to make reasonable efforts to avoid a DM, hence the 10 hour (the rule is usually half the clock so 10 with a 20 hour timer). The easiest way I've found to avoid having to wait for somebody is to be the first player in the cycle, play your turn asap then you can leave them the rest of the clock & forget about it.
 
I propose the following:
- try not move twice in a 10 hrs period
- try to keep play order
- If a DM happens in a critical situation we will need a reload.

I do not agree to let 10hrs time to let the other play as it is too long. I'm ok with 10 hrs only in critical situations. (declaring war , capturing a city, capturing a unit)
 
the beginning of 3275 is reloaded. Eklad needs to take his turn before Zen.

Reading of this thread suggests that the consensus is to prohibit double moves during war time and to adopt a 10 hour "wait rule".

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