Caledorn
Emperor
I would like more feedback from the various players before raising the turn timer..
MTDG3 Preparation PitBoss
- Thread starter Caledorn
- Start date
Bowsling
Deity
Yes, I would support increasing the turn timer.
Caledorn
Emperor
Great 
I will increase the timer to 36 PB hours then.
I will increase the timer to 36 PB hours then.Bowsling
Deity
Game is paused for some reason? I was stuck in a diploscreen, hopefully that did not cause the game to hang.
Caledorn
Emperor
It's because of all the crap I've been working on on the router tonight. Try again now and give me feedback whether it works or not if you would be so kind.
Elkad
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,057
Working. Thanks!
Caledorn
Emperor
Great! Thanks for confirming as well
I have had to resign on trying to fix this for now. Will try replacing the NICs upcoming week in the hope that that will fix it. It should not affect the Pitbosses any further though as that is not where my problem is. They work fine.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
I am requesting a reload to last turn.
Civic and religion swap missions are obscenely broken. The ~200 EP mission employed by Filon last turn obsoletes 2 wonders and destroys a minimum of 2500 beakers in addition to a loss of ~100 XP and 50 promotions - and that is just with one usage. It's tantamount to taking two free techs with Liberalism, except even better as it's repeatable. For comparison, the city revolt mission is almost identically priced and costs 1 turn of production/beakers in 1 city.
If you wish to play on using the broken missions, please find a substitute for the Inca. I took on this game again hesitantly, knowing why the previous player resigned, but I have no desire to play on if broken spy missions are being abused.
Civic and religion swap missions are obscenely broken. The ~200 EP mission employed by Filon last turn obsoletes 2 wonders and destroys a minimum of 2500 beakers in addition to a loss of ~100 XP and 50 promotions - and that is just with one usage. It's tantamount to taking two free techs with Liberalism, except even better as it's repeatable. For comparison, the city revolt mission is almost identically priced and costs 1 turn of production/beakers in 1 city.
If you wish to play on using the broken missions, please find a substitute for the Inca. I took on this game again hesitantly, knowing why the previous player resigned, but I have no desire to play on if broken spy missions are being abused.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Good question.
Caledorn
Emperor
I'm sorry, LP, but unless there is a strong majority among the players in the PB I cannot grant a reload based on a desire to change a rule midgame. I can't see how a reload would help either as Filon could just execute the same missions again, leaving you in the same position unless you intended to move in some kind of defense against his spies. And requesting a reload to move in spy defense is like requesting a reload to move in defense in a city you have lost in war.
Bowsling
Deity
I found a solution to your problem LP: CSM Filon. Make him lose a minimum of 2500 beakers and 50 promotions.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Aside from sharing an acronym the two games really have little in common.As far as I know, all the spy missions are allowed in the main MTDG. So why in the preparations game, its should be banned?
The civic/religion spy missions are known to be obscenely broken, and my past experience with players is that it's common courtesy not to abuse known broken game elements.
Continued abuse of this exploit will heavily tilt the outcome of the game, as I'm sure is obvious. 50000 beakers can easily be destroyed across 100 turns with continued use of the religion mission alone, for just a few installments of a pitiful 200 EP. That's a farce of epic proportions.
However, if you see no problem with the abuse of such a major exploit, please find a substitute to continue playing the Inca. Alternatively I can convert the civ to AI.
My own feelings are quite firm, and I have no desire to play the next 100 or more turns against game exploits instead of rival civilizations.
If we reloaded then presumably the understanding would be that the broken civic/religion missions would not be used. All other missions would of course be fair game.
If the majority of the other players prefer no limitations on abuses of broken game elements, then of course the game can continue - but I will politely decline to continue playing the Inca.
Fair enough. My own perspective is that this falls into the category of "don't abuse broken game elements" - just like not taking multiple techs with Liberalism or building two items in a city in one turn. In hindsight, it seems more explicit initial rules may have been useful though.
That's fine. I would not have a problem if others expressed a similar sentiment.
Caledorn
Emperor
Could someone please pause the game while this situation is resolved?
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
The game is paused.
One thing is holding me back to feel sympathy for LP here and it is the ruthless way I had saw him alone break and exploits game mechanisms in other game (like double-moving and so on, I wont go in details again) to gain the upper hand and ruin the game for many decent folks and now he complains about being outplayed by a player using a technique, which as it turned out is considered legitimate by the bigger part of the Civ4 MP world (like for example the ISDG vote - 5 out of 9 teams voted YES to all espionage missions). I know, the self-proclaimed civ4 MP elite will be hurling insults ("you simply dont understand", "village idiots against Einstein", etc) again, but this does not change a thing.
And CSM is absolutely not the same as infinite techs from Liberalism or building two things in city in a single turn or getting enormous repetitive GPT deals from ally or whatever exploit. It is just very strong technique in the right situation. Like nukes for example. Are they banned from each and every game just because you play in it? I wont go and repeat all the arguments we had in the ISDG setup process.
One thing is holding me back to feel sympathy for LP here and it is the ruthless way I had saw him alone break and exploits game mechanisms in other game (like double-moving and so on, I wont go in details again) to gain the upper hand and ruin the game for many decent folks and now he complains about being outplayed by a player using a technique, which as it turned out is considered legitimate by the bigger part of the Civ4 MP world (like for example the ISDG vote - 5 out of 9 teams voted YES to all espionage missions). I know, the self-proclaimed civ4 MP elite will be hurling insults ("you simply dont understand", "village idiots against Einstein", etc) again, but this does not change a thing.
And CSM is absolutely not the same as infinite techs from Liberalism or building two things in city in a single turn or getting enormous repetitive GPT deals from ally or whatever exploit. It is just very strong technique in the right situation. Like nukes for example. Are they banned from each and every game just because you play in it? I wont go and repeat all the arguments we had in the ISDG setup process.
Caledorn
Emperor
Thank you for pausing the game, 2metra.
I hope you guys can resolve this without my intervention. If I am needed to arbiter though, let me know. I will follow the discussion.
I hope you guys can resolve this without my intervention. If I am needed to arbiter though, let me know. I will follow the discussion.
