Multiple Maps and Mapscripts

[strategyonly]

Are you saying that from a dev standpoint having a crude interface would help? Because, I'd bet that if we tried to implement an interface now without support for more coordinates we'd end up with crashes.

At any rate, I don't know any python, so I can't really be much help here. DH maybe could take a crack at it?

Some interesting thoughts. Note: Something like a rebase mission or something like an airdrop mission that took you to the other map is actually not all that bad a way to go about it in general. Hmmm...


I am currently trying to learn some python so it MAY be something I can eventually work on but my ability to do it anytime soon is probably pretty minimal.

All I'm saying is that we need to lay out the mechanisms by which you get access to new maps, and switch to them. Even without adding underlying coordinates that's a necessary step, and it makes the business of testing the operation of multiple coordinates easier if you have a way to switch maps to test it. Obviously it wouldn't be useful in a live game yet, but it's part of what needs doing, and can as easily be done first, with some testing benefits of providing a vehicle to test the other part later. I don't have the necessary UI or python skills really, and I have no idea what the intention is of how it manifests in terms of game UI. Someone needs to pick this up if multi maps are going anywhere.

@DH,

sounds like everyone is relying on you, unless there is another person(s) that can do python here . . .SO

 

[ls612]

nevermind

 

[12padams]

You know what we need? deadline goals for each major release in regards to multimaps otherwise it's going to be pushed off more and more...

V28 - Lift Off: The ability to build and load early spaceship units to leave the earth's atmosphere and fly around slowly (due to lack of fuel to reach far planets other than the moon) an orbital/solar system view being able to see but not nessisary enter other planets. Maybe the ability to create orbiting space stations could also be added at this stage...

V29 - Man on the Moon: The ability for your spaceship to fly over the "moon tile" (which should be constantly rotating around the earth) then click the button "enter planet" to land on the moon. Here early moon exploration should be added so you have have units checking out all the features of the moon revealing possible resources or some type of moon goody huts... If possible add settling cities on the moon and terraforming as well

V30 - The red planet: Make more powerful ships with more fuel able to explore, colonize and terraform mars. Also work of helping the ai understand what's going on with multimaps if they don't have a clue about it yet.

V31 - Solar system: Work on other planets in our solar system, better ships (faster and more fuel) including gas planets with possible advanced technologies able to compress the gas into a liquid or solid or have cities floating in the mist...

V32 - Milkyway: The ability to explore other solar systems and a view to allow you to colonize planets as a whole rather than landing on them and managing indiviual cities.

V33 and beyond... Other galaxy's, aliens, dimensions ect until/if koshlings other project becomes better than this one.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@12padams

I would be careful putting exact dates on things. Remember we do this for fun. Having deadlines just make it more like "work" and less like a hobby. Its much better to encourage and motivate someone to get something done than it is to nag and demand it get done by a specific date.

 

[strategyonly]

@12padams

I would be careful putting exact dates on things. Remember we do this for fun. Having deadlines just make it more like "work" and less like a hobby. Its much better to encourage and motivate someone to get something done than it is to nag and demand it get done by a specific date.

Yeah, as Hydro said, but then its the modders prerogative if HE/she wants to put up a Projected list like you have, but again its totally up to each modder(s), separately . . SO

 

[12padams]

Well if modding is only done for fun and working on multimaps isn't fun then multimaps will never be done! Lol

I heard hydro is working on multimaps... Does he have a development plan of some kind?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I heard hydro is working on multimaps... Does he have a development plan of some kind?

Where did you hear this? I don't work on the multi-maps. They are beyond my skill level. I mean I helped design the terrain for them with DH and will help design units that will be on the ls612, but the multi-maps themselves I cannot help with. Don't get me wrong I can help with a lot of things but multi-maps are not one of them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Bumping this because the topic has been brought up.

 

[3335d]

Bumping this because the topic has been brought up.

Will these ever be released, now that Koshling is moving to his new project? Hopefully there's some way to get him to hold off on that for a short time until multi-maps can be properly integrated, and then allow him to continue on his own project (which the rest of the development team here can ultimately migrate to). Once the preconditions are in place the project will take off like never before.

 

[strategyonly]

Will these ever be released, now that Koshling is moving to his new project? Hopefully there's some way to get him to hold off on that for a short time until multi-maps can be properly integrated, and then allow him to continue on his own project (which the rest of the development team here can ultimately migrate to). Once the preconditions are in place the project will take off like never before.

Thats all up to him, i "Thought" thats what he WAS going to do (at least thats what he said), but even now i am wondering

 

[3335d]

Thats all up to him, i "Thought" thats what he WAS going to do (at least thats what he said), but even now i am wondering

I think you should PM him about it before his project gets too far off the ground, I'm not trying to kill his ideas but, as another person on this forum (and the Archery tech) said:

"If you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both."​

So let's kill the rabbit of multimaps first and then Koshling can move on to his own project. It would be a shame to see both C2C and AXXXXE die.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Personally I wish he would finish the multi-maps here and THEN work on his new project.

 

[12padams]

Personally I wish he would finish the multi-maps here and THEN work on his new project.

Seriously who doesn't think that? Apart from koshling... His new project is his reasoning for not working on multimaps. Why should he waste time on struggling to get multimaps to work with this mod when he can code from scratch a much better, unlimited caveman2cosmos game? Well... It will give the caveman2cosmos community something to spend time with and expand on keeping us happy and together while we wait a few years to be amazed by koshlings new caveman2cosmos.

Still... I really wish multimaps could be released on this mod before Christmas. Although the work wouldn't be over once multimaps is finished because he would then need to write a guide for those who wish to code with multimaps. After that the other modders could work on the galactic era making this mod the best civ game ever!

Koshling, you agree right?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well, guys, as he stated, what he's up against is outside his realm of expertise at this point, requiring some python coder to step up and work with him to complete the project. So far, nobody has stood up to offer this assistance so what's he supposed to do?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well, guys, as he stated, what he's up against is outside his realm of expertise at this point, requiring some python coder to step up and work with him to complete the project. So far, nobody has stood up to offer this assistance so what's he supposed to do?

Get himself from the future to help him make the multi-maps and as a result learn how its done so in the future he can go back and teach himself.

 

[12padams]

Well, guys, as he stated, what he's up against is outside his realm of expertise at this point, requiring some python coder to step up and work with him to complete the project. So far, nobody has stood up to offer this assistance so what's he supposed to do?

He's supposed to go to the link below and ask whatever questions he needs to ask there:
http://forums.devshed.com/python-programming-11/

 

[Thunderbrd]

He's supposed to go to the link below and ask whatever questions he needs to ask there:
http://forums.devshed.com/python-programming-11/

Well... any of us could do that. I don't see why we're placing the entire burden of completing multi-maps on Koshling's shoulders. He's set up a tremendous amount of basis for it as it is now and merely awaits someone with the preexisting expertise to work with him. For how bad we all want this I'm surprised nobody is working with him to finalize the design. If I wasn't in the middle of a huge project myself I would LEARN the necessary python to help him out but I'm seeing a number of us who are screaming a lot louder than I about how badly we need him to finish it that aren't doing anything but voicing themselves.

Just because you understand one programming language inside and out doesn't mean it so easily translates to mastering another, even if Python IS similar to C++ in many ways. So if he simply feels doing so would be a burdensome pain in the arse, perhaps someone who really wants this to get completed soon could step up and learn the necessary py structure to aid in finalizing things? I'm sure it wouldn't take any longer to do so than it would for him to sort it all out himself. And why should we be purely relying on him to finish this setup in the first place?

I know AIAndy's got the skills to handle this end, but imo, solving OOS errors is a far higher priority than ANY new mod details, even multi-maps. And sadly, he's the only one who seems to understand the problems there enough to solve them. And yet we pull HIM in a hundred directions at once too. Furthermore, I patiently understand he's been fairly busy with RL as well.

All's I guess I'm saying here is we need to be patient. I don't see the 'new project' as being any kind of impediment to completing multi-maps as Koshling himself has stated that he's taken it as far as he will beyond aiding in coupling with a Py programmer's efforts to finish off the job. So at this point, its not him we're waiting on unless you feel since he's gone as far as he has he's somehow committed himself to completing it for us all without any of our further assistance? The degree of demanding expectations in such a stance would be something I'd think anyone who's giving their donated time and expertise would find a bit miffling.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

Is there anyone on the team that knows how to do the stuff that Koshling can do? I honestly don't know since anything beyond XML modding is gibberish to me. If he is the only one that can then I think its understandable that "we" would want him to finish it. Since such a feature would benefit not only C2C but all Civ 4 mods. I hate to put him on the spot but a lot of other factors now depend upon multi-maps.

However if for whatever reason multi-maps never materialize there is a plan B. As I mentioned before with the Future Mod and having more than one map on the same map with it separated by impassible squares. We would have to make custom map scripts but it is within our collective skill level. Paired with the currently functional viewports it would work. However its not nearly as elegant as multi-maps. And all maps would be HUGE just to have a decent size Earth map.

 

[strategyonly]

As i have stated before, if "we" need python help really badly, Pls post a NEW thread in the SDK/Python Help area, and i know there will be quite a few people that will be willing to help out, heck thats how i made the Civics Screen, and at least had a semi-working copy of "The Mercenary Mod" working.

 

[12padams]

So as I understand it now... Multimaps is dead, this new project is a replacement for caveman2cosmos that will be much better and unlimited yet won't be playable for 2 years. The only way multimaps will continue is if another person helps koshling complete the project.

You see I can't go over to the forums and ask for help with multimaps because I don't know what to ask. I don't know what koshling can't figure out... Only he knows! So only koshling can go on those forums and say "how do I achieve x with python". Has he tried to do this as of yet?