My proposal for a new leader for Germany

[Azzebox]

Hello,
First of all, you should know that German history has always been a succession of union and division of the different German regions, which led to greatness or disaster. I therefore propose as a new leader an essential figure in German history that we encountered in previous games: Otto Van Bismarck, the unifier of the German empire. If Frederic 1er tries to unite his empire by force (thanks to the military boost against city-states), Bismarck will try to achieve it by war diplomacy (as he did during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 ). I therefore propose the following boost:
"Iron Chancellor: Neighboring city-states (up to 6 spaces from one of your cities) that fight the same enemy civilization as you during a war may be annexed free of charge by Germany. +5 military powers to all units against civilizations that have declared war on you. +10 if it is a surprise war."

"Diplomacy without weapons is music without instruments." - Otto Von Bismarck

This strategy can be very interesting to exploit for war diplomacy. The annexation of city-states of which Germany is the suzerain is not really interesting. That said, the whole complexity will be to annex the city-states of the other suzerains, through skillful and strategic declarations of war. Germany's neighbors who are suzerains of a nearby city-state will have to think twice before declaring war, for fear of Germany joining them and annexing their city-states at the same time.
This mechanism will completely change the perception of alliances during the wars and sanction the most hawkish and the least strategists. In addition, the pressure exerted by the Germans on the nearby city-states and the dangers of a common war, will push the players to declare war on Germany in order to eliminate this risk. This is where the military boost against the civilizations that declare war on you is interesting, and Germany will try to be as threatening and provocative as possible in order to be attacked and therefore more easily win the war (that's exactly which Bismarck did with the dispatch from Ems).
Germany will therefore shine during international intrigues and take the opportunity to unify with the nearby city-states. It will must therefore ensure that it maintains a high level of diplomatic visibility in order to be aware of all the wars that could serve to unify it.

For AI, Bismarck would adopt the behavior:
Blood and Iron : Loves civilizations that wage common wars. Do not like civilizations that wage war alone.

This is just a small suggestion from a great admirer of the game and a history enthusiast. What do you think ?

 

[steveg700]

Not sure what you mean by "annex".

There's levying, which borrows the city-state's units. We already have Hungary for focusing on that.

If the city-states are fighting the same civ that you are, you're probably already their suzerain.

If you mean the city-state joins your empire and becomes your city, then that's obviously too powerful.

 

[Azzebox]

Not sure what you mean by "annex".

There's levying, which borrows the city-state's units. We already have Hungary for focusing on that.

If the city-states are fighting the same civ that you are, you're probably already their suzerain.

If you mean the city-state joins your empire and becomes your city, then that's obviously too powerful.

I don't think it got too strong for several reasons. Already, as you said, annexing your own city-states is not very profitable, it is better to keep their bonuses. On the other hand, annexing the city states of others, by declaring war on the right people will be interesting. That said, you should know that this mechanism depends more on the behavior of other players than that of Germany. Indeed, if no one declares war, Bismarck will have a hard time forming alliances that will benefit him. So this will push the players to adapt to the presence of Germany. For example, you may simply not declare war at all, or you can favor the city states distant from Germany. You can also declare war on a German ally, to ensure that Bismarck cannot join you in this war and annex your city-states or you can conquer the city-states close to Germany at the start of the game (the ideal would therefore be to choose early civilizations like Macedonia or Sumer) and, if Bismarck declares war on you to annex them, you can destroy him since he doesn't will not be able to benefit from the +5 boost of military power (available only if you declare war on him).
So although there are counter plays, the presence of Germany will completely change the behavior of other players who will have to be less hawkish and more strategic (which I think is a good thing).

 

[Henri Christophe]

Bismarck is boring, was already in Civ V.
I would like to see Frederick the great, he seems very Germanic to me rsrs

 

[Sostratus]

Frederick has an ability set to simply take city states directly with his +7 boost against them. Due to the lack of defacto alliance between CS and their suzerains in civ6, your proposal for Bismarck also seems to tread into "acquire city states" design space.
Frederick also has the extra military slot, which sort of overlaps with getting a war bonus as Bismarck.

We do not have city state annexation like we did in civ5, although one could probably code that effect in somehow.

 

[Azzebox]

Frederick has an ability set to simply take city states directly with his +7 boost against them. Due to the lack of defacto alliance between CS and their suzerains in civ6, your proposal for Bismarck also seems to tread into "acquire city states" design space.
Frederick also has the extra military slot, which sort of overlaps with getting a war bonus as Bismarck.

We do not have city state annexation like we did in civ5, although one could probably code that effect in somehow.

In fact, I think adding a leader should allow civilization to exploit its bonuses, but differently. Frederic is rather focused on the direct aggression of the city-states, whereas I think that Bismarck should rather use the diplomacy of war, by the game of the wars against a common enemy. In addition, the +1 military doctrine location appears to give Germany offensive power, while the Bismarck bonus will grant it defensive power. Frederic will therefore favor the attack, while Bismarck will rather seek to be attacked, by means of provocation or threats on the neighboring city-states. So although both are focused on war, one favors brute force while the other uses the game of common wars and provocations in order to be attacked. The annexation of city-states and war are therefore the objectives of the two leaders, but they do it differently to get there. As for the annexation of city states, as you said, it can be coded in one way or another.

 

[Henri Christophe]

In fact, I think adding a leader should allow civilization to exploit its bonuses, but differently. Frederic is rather focused on the direct aggression of the city-states, whereas I think that Bismarck should rather use the diplomacy of war, by the game of the wars against a common enemy. In addition, the +1 military doctrine location appears to give Germany offensive power, while the Bismarck bonus will grant it defensive power. Frederic will therefore favor the attack, while Bismarck will rather seek to be attacked, by means of provocation or threats on the neighboring city-states. So although both are focused on war, one favors brute force while the other uses the game of common wars and provocations in order to be attacked. The annexation of city-states and war are therefore the objectives of the two leaders, but they do it differently to get there. As for the annexation of city states, as you said, it can be coded in one way or another.

I guess All Germany leaders avaiable should be very agressive. The only one who isn't a warmonger is Angela Merkel, but as Angela Merkel still alive she can't be a Civ Leader.

But, when she dies, I would say Angela Merkel is by far the best option to be a German leader, first because she is a Woman and rules too many years.
Second, we can in fact say the Europe Union is as the 4th Reich and Angela Merkel is the new Führer, but she isn't a warmonger as other Germanic Leaders, she is very Left Wing, maybe because she born in Dresden in Cold War. (East Germany)

 

[Azzebox]

Bismarck is boring, was already in Civ V.
I would like to see Frederick the great, he seems very Germanic to me rsrs

It seems to me that he was king of Prussia, and not emperor of Germany. It was not until 1871 that the successor of the Holy Roman Empire rose from the ashes with the Second Reich, and therefore the German Empire.

I guess All Germany leaders avaiable should be very agressive. The only one who isn't a warmonger is Angela Merkel, but as Angela Merkel still alive she can't be a Civ Leader.

But, when she dies, I would say Angela Merkel is by far the best option to be a German leader, first because she is a Woman and rules too many years.
Second, we can in fact say the Europe Union is as the 4th Reich and Angela Merkel is the new Führer, but she isn't a warmonger as other Germanic Leaders, she is very Left Wing, maybe because she born in Dresden in Cold War. (East Germany)

As a German, I don't know if Merkel, even dead, is a good choice. Already because she is an overly political leader, and the Germans adherents to political parties different from the CDU would not appreciate (especially that it has considerably degraded the social cover of the poorest). In general, the leaders of civilization generally make everyone agree by their seniority, or by their symbolism (like Wilhelmine, which is the symbol of the fight against Nazism). Furthermore, I believe that the period of current economic influence and "German domination over Europe" is due, not to Merkel, but to Konrad Adenauer, who is considered to be the father of modern Germany

 

[Henri Christophe]

It seems to me that he was king of Prussia, and not emperor of Germany. It was not until 1871 that the successor of the Holy Roman Empire rose from the ashes with the Second Reich, and therefore the German Empire.

Cool a Germany here! wie geht's dir? I made Erasmus in Magdeburg.
I really enjoy this issue about Germany Nationality.
What do you think about Frederick Barbarossa, do you think he is more "Germanic" as Frederick the Great because he hold for while the Holly Roman Empire?

And about Merkel,
History is narrative, the German people should choice when write own history if she was great or not, I don't know enought.
Ich bin ein Ausländer

 

[Henri Christophe]

What do you think if German has an Unique Unit as Schutztrupp Askari
Maybe an Expansion Pack where some Empires recieve abroad units they used in Modern age.


Ps. I saw you are new, I use this site to host Images.
https://freeimage.host/

 

[Azzebox]

Cool a Germany here! wie geht's dir? I made Erasmus in Magdeburg.
I really enjoy this issue about Germany Nationality.
What do you think about Frederick Barbarossa, do you think he is more "Germanic" as Frederick the Great because he hold for while the Holly Roman Empire?

And about Merkel,
History is narrative, the German people should choice when write own history if she was great or not, I don't know enought.
Ich bin ein Ausländer

Guten Morgen lieber Freund,
Gerne beantworte ich Ihre Frage !
Regarding your question about Barbarossa, the Holy Roman Empire is what is called in Germany, the 1st Reich. Although it is a frank empire at the base (founded by Charlemagne),
Germany, beyond a nation, is a project which aims to unite all German kingdoms (Bavaria, Saxony, Hanover ...). As such, the Holy Empire is the first Germany. Thus, even if the Holy Empire may not be called Germany, it is its closest ancestor to the extent that it unified the German kingdoms under the same banner. Bismarck, moreover, was referring to Barbarossa when he proclaimed the birth of the Second Reich, and he considered the German Empire as the worthy successor of the Holy Empire. So to conclude, the holy empire was the first Germany insofar as it united all the German states around the same flag. And so yes, Barbarossa is a figure for Germany since it embodies the desire for unity of all the German kingdoms (and also the defense of Christianity but that is something else).
Frederick the great may be a very great king, he was only king of Prussia, which is only a part of Germany. He is therefore not the king of Germany since he did not reign over a unified German kingdom. I think my friends in Bavaria would not like to see a king who only ruled in Prussia be the leader of all of Germany. That would mean that Prussia alone constitutes Germany, and that will not please the other German states I guarantee you!

What do you think if German has an Unique Unit as Schutztrupp Askari
Maybe an Expansion Pack where some Empires recieve abroad units they used in Modern age.


Ps. I saw you are new, I use this site to host Images.
https://freeimage.host/

The idea is very good and original. In addition, it would allow diversity at the level of the proposed troops! But I don't know if it would stick with Germany's gameplay. Because Germany has never really sought to develop its colonies (hence the famous phrase of Bismarck: "Europe! There is my Africa", reference to its desire to focus on the continent and not on the colonies). A troop thus, which a little like the red coats, ensure the protection of the colonies, would be strange for a non colonizing country (or in any case less colonizing than its French and English neighbors).

Regarding Merkel, personally I don't like her!
But it's more political than anything else.

PS: Danke für die Seite!

 

[JeanMi]

The idea is great! I would love to play or play against this civilization. We cannot miss the opportunity to have a leader with a Pickelhaube !

 

[Irish Lover]

Yes ! Bismarck is a MUST !

 

[Sirsquier]

Frederick the Great seems like a far better choice the Bismark. He has one of the highest victory counts of any general. (Up there with good ol' Alex)

 

[The Kingmaker]

FXS-quality animated Bismarck is already available for download here:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2126843283

He really should have had the helmet in Civ5 though, such an iconic look.

 

[GunsGermsandSteel]

What do you think if German has an Unique Unit as Schutztrupp Askari
Maybe an Expansion Pack where some Empires recieve abroad units they used in Modern age.


Ps. I saw you are new, I use this site to host Images.
https://freeimage.host/

I like this idea! Call it the Ethnic Diversity Add-on.

Germany - Schutztrupp Askari
France - French Foreign Legion
Brits - Ghurkas
America - Buffalo Soldiers
Brazil - Pracinha (not quite on theme, but why not?)
Russia - Siberian Division
Spain - Division Azul (also a bit of a stretch)

 

[JUJUK]

Hello,
During the Gathering Storm DLC, France and England received a new leader to lead their civilizations. I would like to share with you one of my ideas for Germany, which currently has only one leader. First of all, you should know that German history has always been a succession of union and division of the different German regions, which led to greatness or disaster. I therefore propose as a new leader an essential figure in German history that we encountered in previous games: Otto Van Bismarck, the unifier of the German empire. If Frederic 1er tries to unite his empire by force (thanks to the military boost against city-states), Bismarck will try to achieve it by war diplomacy (as he did during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 ). I therefore propose the following boost:
"Iron Chancellor: Neighboring city-states (up to 6 spaces from one of your cities) that fight the same enemy civilization as you during a war may be annexed free of charge by Germany. +5 military powers to all units against civilizations that have declared war on you. +10 if it is a surprise war."

"Diplomacy without weapons is music without instruments." - Otto Von Bismarck

This strategy can be very interesting to exploit for war diplomacy. The annexation of city-states of which Germany is the suzerain is not really interesting. That said, the whole complexity will be to annex the city-states of the other suzerains, through skillful and strategic declarations of war. Germany's neighbors who are suzerains of a nearby city-state will have to think twice before declaring war, for fear of Germany joining them and annexing their city-states at the same time.
This mechanism will completely change the perception of alliances during the wars and sanction the most hawkish and the least strategists. In addition, the pressure exerted by the Germans on the nearby city-states and the dangers of a common war, will push the players to declare war on Germany in order to eliminate this risk. This is where the military boost against the civilizations that declare war on you is interesting, and Germany will try to be as threatening and provocative as possible in order to be attacked and therefore more easily win the war (that's exactly which Bismarck did with the dispatch from Ems).
Germany will therefore shine during international intrigues and take the opportunity to unify with the nearby city-states. It will must therefore ensure that it maintains a high level of diplomatic visibility in order to be aware of all the wars that could serve to unify it.

For AI, Bismarck would adopt the behavior:
Blood and Iron : Loves civilizations that wage common wars. Do not like civilizations that wage war alone.

This is just a small suggestion from a great admirer of the game and a history enthusiast. What do you think ?

Very good idea
But Bismarck's mustache is going to be a challenge for developers!

 

[Azzebox]

Frederick the Great seems like a far better choice the Bismark. He has one of the highest victory counts of any general. (Up there with good ol' Alex)

I don't think so because, like I said, "Frederick the great may be a very great king, he was only king of Prussia, which is only a part of Germany. He is therefore not the king of Germany since he did not reign over a unified German kingdom".
But why not make a new civilization that he could lead: Prussia independently of Germany.

FXS-quality animated Bismarck is already available for download here:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2126843283

He really should have had the helmet in Civ5 though, such an iconic look.

Yes I know this mod and I use it often. Nevertheless, I don't really like the choice of the leader bonus, because I don't think that the "kulturkampf" is the most notable thing of the reign of bismarck (I even believe that this reform was a complete failure). I would really like a Bismarck with bonuses which correspond to his work, namely the unification of Germany.

 

[Zaarin]

I don't think so because, like I said, "Frederick the great may be a very great king, he was only king of Prussia, which is only a part of Germany. He is therefore not the king of Germany since he did not reign over a unified German kingdom".
But why not make a new civilization that he could lead: Prussia independently of Germany.

Factions in Civ are civilizations, not states. There's no reason Frederick the Great couldn't lead Germany (as he did in Civ4), just like Pericles and Gorgo lead Greece without having ever ruled over all of Greece (or actually ruling anything, in Gorgo's case...).

I would really like a Bismarck with bonuses which correspond to his work, namely the unification of Germany.

I would say his most important accomplishment was his conflicting network of alliances that kept the peace on the Continent (and whose breakdown under Wilhelm II's incompetence led to World War I). Bismarck's unification of Germany was skillfully done, but by the time he did it it was clear to everyone that unification was inevitable--the only question was whether it would be under Prussia or Austria.

 

[Azzebox]

Factions in Civ are civilizations, not states. There's no reason Frederick the Great couldn't lead Germany (as he did in Civ4), just like Pericles and Gorgo lead Greece without having ever ruled over all of Greece (or actually ruling anything, in Gorgo's case...).

I would say his most important accomplishment was his conflicting network of alliances that kept the peace on the Continent (and whose breakdown under Wilhelm II's incompetence led to World War I). Bismarck's unification of Germany was skillfully done, but by the time he did it it was clear to everyone that unification was inevitable--the only question was whether it would be under Prussia or Austria.

I think that Athens (with the League of Delos in particular) and Sparta are certainly far from covering the whole of Greek territory, but these two cities represent a period of political and cultural influence for Greece. As such, they may not be a "state", Greece in its origins never intended to be a united country. In fact, Greece was more a geographic expression than a
a desire for national unity. However, Germany is something else entirely. Indeed, Germany is a political project. As such, to omit the fundamentals of the principle of the German state, namely the unification of the German regions into a single state, would be a political-historical error. The very idea of Germany is based on unification (and that is why the Holy Empire can be considered as Germany, the 1st Reich, in short), and without that, it is no longer a question of Germany.
Germany is much more comparable to Spain which are both nations "with plans for national union". However, Castile or Catalonia alone cannot represent all of Spain, simply because Spain admits in its political origin a union of the Iberian kingdoms. The same goes for Germany.


It is true, he was a fine diplomat unlike William 2. But still admit that creating a Germany under Prussian domination was not an easy task, and that his international strategies, wars and diplomacy, were genius. I think that preserving the empire is only the continuity of the work of unification.