N. Korea Warns of 'Merciless' Nuclear Offensive

[Formaldehyde]

Your average WWII second rate power infantry company was better armed/fed/trained that 90% of the NK military today. You have a very inaccurate conception of what NK's military is.

Still awaiting any actual facts to support your opinion...

You seem to be under the impression that because something is a fact it is relevant. You should not be under this impression.

You seem to be under the impression that anybody who disagrees with your own opinions is being "irrelevant". You should not be under this impression.

Case in point, California is a top producer of avecados. While factual, it is not relevant. This lesson was provided to you free of charge

And as usual, you continue to engage in absurd ad hominems such as this instead of even trying to address the issues. This lesson was provided to you free of charge

 

[amadeus]

I read somewhere that many people have secret satellite TV antennas and when the electricity works, they watch SK channels.

I'm not entirely sure that's the case for three reasons:

First, since the two Koreas have different transmission standards, I don't believe that it's technically possible to receive signals transmitted from each others' borders unless they have stations set up in that format. (Allegedly, North Korea runs a propaganda station in South Korea's format in order for people in the South to receive it.)

Second, North Korean telecommunications equipment, before it is sold, is modified to exclusively pick up government-approved stations.

Third, North Korea also regularly jams broadcasts coming in from outside of its country.

 

[Danielos]

I don´t presume that North Korea is in any way equivalent in quality to US forces, but I think it is wise not to underestimate an enemy we know little about. I´ve heard western military analysts say that if a war broke out, USA and S Korea would win, but that it would be a hard and bloody affair with estimated 100,000 dead.

 

[ZB2]

If, and I really doubt, North Korea used a nuclear weapon in battle, it would be a show of greater character NOT to use one in return.

 

[Munch]

I find it quite hard to believe that NK would actually make the first move in any conflict. The Dear Leader isn't stupid. These are empty threats to an extent, the kind we have seen many times (except this time his words are backed with nuclear weapons, supposedly). However if the Dear Leader felt that his life of luxury was about to be brought to an abrupt end, then I can see that he might want to cause as much damage as possible in his death-throes of power. The maximum damage he could do, then, is probably to destroy Tokyo. I'm not saying he could definitely achieve this now, but soon he will have the capacity for a fairly reliable delivery system that could do this. If he could reliably reach further then the only target would be the western US, but that would require significant advancement from his current position.

 

[Patroklos]

Just as the US has done. Or are you really going to try to claim that all US units even before WWII were always equipped with the very best and lastest equipment? Here's a little detail to help refresh your memory regarding reality

Let me quote it again for you, perhpas the third time will be a charm:

"The ground forces seldom retire old models of weapons and tend to maintain a large equipment stock, keeping old models along with upgraded ones in the active force or in reserve."

You are cute when you are clueless. Please find a Sherman serving along side our Abrahms in our active units. How about a Pershing? How about a Patton??? A Sheridan?!?

You seem to be under the impression that anybody who disagrees with you is being "irrelevant". You should not be under this impression.

You don't actually disagree with me Form, you are just being obtuse because it pains you that your NK heros are backwards. You know damn well the NK miliary is crap. You are irrelevant because what you said is irrelevant, just like everything you have said in this thread since

And as usual, you continue to engage in absurd ad hominems such as this instead of even trying to address the issues. This lesson was provided to you free of charge

You should look up the term ad hominem, you are doing it wrong

 

[Patroklos]

I don´t presume that North Korea is in any way equivalent in quality to US forces, but I think it is wise not to underestimate an enemy we know little about. I´ve heard western military analysts say that if a war broke out, USA and S Korea would win, but that it would be a hard and bloody affair with estimated 100,000 dead.

I have no doubt that NK would suffer that many casualties

The stickler for casualties is Seoul, and that depends on a great many things.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You don't actually disagree with me Form, you are just being obtuse because it pains you that your NK heros are backwards.

You really do make it too easy:

There is not doubt that NK is a repressive totalitarian goverment.

You know damn well the NK miliary is crap.

Compared to the US? Obviously. But they are hardly as backwards as you just tried to portray them. And which you still haven't provided any corroboration whatsoever for you wacky allegation.

Your average WWII second rate power infantry company was better armed/fed/trained that 90% of the NK military today.

Still waiting...

[You have a very inaccurate conception of what NK's military is.

Ironically, it would apppear that you are the one suffering from that particular malady...

You are irrelevant because what you said is irrelevant, just like everything you have said in this thread since

I don't think anybody actually cares what your opinion of "irrelevancy" is anymore. I certainly don't. You broke that ad hominem record long ago. Try addressing the issues for a change.

You should look up the term ad hominem, you are doing it wrong

Are you actually going to try to claim this isn't an ad homimen?

you are just being obtuse because it pains you that your NK heros are backwards.

I just love irony, don't you?

 

[Patroklos]

The ground forces seldom retire old models of weapons and tend to maintain a large equipment stock, keeping old models along with upgraded ones in the active force or in reserve.

The allegation was purposeful exaggeration, which I stated already. I then quoted it again for people like yourself who routinely fail to RTFT

Here is another free lesson. I could say you have the brain of an amoeba (just an example mind you!). While this is obviously not precisely true since you can operate a computer (though you could still be a bot, which is still very much a possibility), were I to say such a thing the purpose of the comment would be readily apparent to everyone with the exception or probably yourself. This literary device has a name, doubtless one that excapes you.

So, in summary, add exaggeration to your list of words to research:

Irony
Relevance
Ad Hominem
Strawman
Exaggeration

Are you actually going to try to claim this isn't an ad homimen?

Of course, words have meanings Form, and though you do it quite often it is not acceptable for you to just make up your own when the English language fails you

I just love irony, don't you?

I know you are oblivious to this because you so obviously have no idea what irony means, but the irony of you misusing irony is deliciously ironic!

 

[ZB2]

Do keep the insults few and far between, it makes for an awkward reading otherwise.

It's silly to claim the quality of North Koreas military when the only people likely to know it work in Langley or Beijing, and probably don't post on this forum!

All else is assumptions based on TV documentaries or aged case studies from the Korean War.

 

[Bast]

The only problem with that premise is that there are no "good men". The US certainly doesn't qualify. Take the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq based on deliberate lies and deceit, for instance. Or if you prefer, the CIA overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran. There are countless other examples, but I won't bore you with details. If you really want to crusade for "good", it would seem to me to be a good idea to fix your own "goodness problems" first.



Got any actual proof to support that allegation? I would think a real "maniac" would have attacked SK long ago, instead of simply posturing and saber-rattling whenever he and his country feel threatened by the same "good guys" who have been deliberately harassing them ever since GWB labelled them part of "the Axis of Evil" after 9/11.

There is not doubt that NK is a repressive totalitarian goverment. But there are dozens of right-wing ones in the world today that either go completely unnoticed or are actually our "allies". But the Cold war taught us that left-wing ones are always vile while right-wing ones are really not all that bad, since "good men" don't seem too preoccupied with those.

It certainly wasn't "other people's problem" until GWB started openly harassing them. NK/SK relations had steadily improved until he started posturing against them, thereby annoying the hell out of the leaders and people of SK who are actually threatened by such rhetoric.



I guess you are forgetting all those years when SK was a barbaric totalitarian government no better than NK was. Yet they still received the undying admiration and support of the US government long before they finally decided to give their own people the right to vote.

This thread is yet another classic example of right-wing extremism at work. A NK newspaper writes a commentary that nuclear weapons may now be used offensively if they are provoked enough. Since all media is controlled in NK, everybody simply assumes this is now the official government position, which it may or may not be. And now, the far right is trying to use it as a justification to wipe them off the face of the earth, even though the US officially threatened nuclear war itself many times in the past.

I'd say NK has likely accomplished their goal. While doing nothing officially, the US will think twice before advocating harsh embargoes that will only cause the people of NK to further starve, just as the people in Iraq did after the first gulf war. And then they will point at all the starving people which they directly helped cause, and state "Look how evil NK is!" After all, it worked with Iraq, and as it continues to work with Cuba...

LOL! Nobody wants to wipe North Korea off the map. This isn't a computer game. The only extremist I see is you taking an extreme stance like "wiping countries off the map". Any honest person would be concerned about the security of countries like South Korea and Japan within North Korea's striking zone. North Korea's actions can only lead to death and destruction in the region.

 

[Danielos]

With the aggressive and arrogant American jingoism displayed here by some participants, it is hard not beginning to root for the North Korean underdogs.

 

[RedRalph]

Do keep the insults few and far between, it makes for an awkward reading otherwise.

It's silly to claim the quality of North Koreas military when the only people likely to know it work in Langley or Beijing, and probably don't post on this forum!

All else is assumptions based on TV documentaries or aged case studies from the Korean War.

I agree. People can speculate all they want, thats what the board is for, but it really bugs me when people here insinuate they "know" this stuff. They dont know, and everyone knows they dont know. they suspect.

 

[ZB2]

With the aggressive and arrogant American jingoism displayed here by some participants, it is hard not beginning to root for the North Korean underdogs.

Haha, well we all love a good underdog story anyway!

 

[Patroklos]

With the aggressive and arrogant American jingoism displayed here by some participants, it is hard not beginning to root for the North Korean underdogs.

Yeah, I sure hope the dozens of millions of freedom loving, prosperous and generally peaceful people of SK suffer under the dystopian nightmare that is NK too! Oh, wait a minute, what?!?

Also, there has been no American jingoism displayed here. Plenty of the opposite from From though.

 

[REDY]

I find it quite hard to believe that NK would actually make the first move in any conflict. The Dear Leader isn't stupid. These are empty threats to an extent, the kind we have seen many times (except this time his words are backed with nuclear weapons, supposedly). However if the Dear Leader felt that his life of luxury was about to be brought to an abrupt end, then I can see that he might want to cause as much damage as possible in his death-throes of power. The maximum damage he could do, then, is probably to destroy Tokyo. I'm not saying he could definitely achieve this now, but soon he will have the capacity for a fairly reliable delivery system that could do this. If he could reliably reach further then the only target would be the western US, but that would require significant advancement from his current position.

Well have you feeling that what hes now doing is rational? I havent. He should ask for international help or gain respect by thousands better ways, many authoritarian regimes do it and democracies are giving them millions. Even last allies as China are puzzled by this. It would have some point if he would want mobilize population, but hardly should be any other population in the world more isolated from foreign thoughs than N.Koreans.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Moderator Action: Back off from the personal attacks, especially Form and Patroklos.

 

[Formaldehyde]

LOL! Nobody wants to wipe North Korea off the map..

O RLY?

See, if the US had orbital weapons, they could decimate NK ability to decimate Seoul and finally get rid of the evil regime once and for all. "Rods from God"

About the guilty party in all this mess (with N. Korea, Iran, Burma, some african nations...), there is a sentence I deeply believe in : "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"...]The UN should have (ofcourse it didn't) destroyed the regime and leader long ago.

Then there are those, such as yourself, who merely imply that is what should be done:

Yes but we're not rogue states nor international pariahs.

I'm surprised people on here don't take nk more seriously. They really have no deterrents from using nuclear weapons as they have pretty much no allies, and a tyrannical god-king that has totally brainwashed his desperate starving people.

If NK was a utopia of plenty then you would have a point. As it is it is a starving pinnacle of human suffering, instilling a seige mentality to mask that reality is pure evil.

And how is that not in and of itself evil. You don't seem to get it. It is not just that NK citizens are starving, its that most do not know there is any other way to live. Even Somalis know there is a better world out there, NK citizens believe the outside world is worse than what they experiance in NK.

So do you still think my contention is baseless?

This isn't a computer game.

No, it's yet another ad hominem...

Any honest person would be concerned about the security of countries like South Korea and Japan within North Korea's striking zone.

Am I concerned? Sure. Am I any more concerned before NK had a viable means of actually discouraging people from invading their sovereign country? Not really. I think they have as much right to defend themselves as any other country does. They have been directly threatened by the GWB regime for years. Who can possibly blame them?

North Korea's actions can only lead to death and destruction in the region.

This is where we basically disagree. I think it was GWB's actions that led to potential death and destruction in the region. NK is merely responding in a logical and predicatble manner to these threats. If I were Kim Jong Il, I would have likely tried to do exactly the same thing, and I bet most of the people who proclaim how evil they are would as well.

 

[Aegis]

LOL! Nobody wants to wipe North Korea off the map.

O RLY?

No one in power, Form.

 

[Formaldehyde]

No one in power, Form.

I never claimed they were, at least now that GWB and the neocons are no longer in office:

And now, the far right is trying to use it as a justification to wipe them off the face of the earth, even though the US officially threatened nuclear war itself many times in the past.

But I think we are now paying for that legacy of posturing for years against the so-called "Axis of Evil." As usual, it's all about blowback.