Lonecat Nekophrodite
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2019
- Messages
- 1,851
How should F'xis deal with a combat vessel powered by a combo of wind and muscle power? What should be an approach regarding to this kind of vessel since these had been primary warships until at least 14th Century AD (Battle of Sluys. where English sailers (cogs, holkes and nefs) trumped galleys of all kind (though what contributed to French total defeat was tactical debacle--chaining all ships (galleys, barges and similiarly rented roundships) together instead of deploying them freely. when seas became rough, all naval line of defense went awry and this made English battle them much easier than they should.
Should there be evolutionary process represented as units (and how? since galleys were most developed and diversified in the Classical Era (Around 600 BC, first polyreme--the Bireme-- invented by Phoenicians (and possibly ones that carried Dido and her retinues to the coast of Libya which she chose a hill nearby to build a city (of Carthage) ... (and not slaughtering a bull/cow and shredded its remains to determine a city limit like what Greeks Mythology told us.) and that outperformed greek Pentekonter (a limit of moner). and Phoenicians prove how good biremes were compared to Greeks pentekonters (and more common triakonters which were smaller?).
Throuhgout the franchise history. F'xis seemed to take this not so corrrectly. too many times 'Galley' and 'Trireme' are interchangeable name despite the fact that 'Galley' in civ 6 should mean simple triakonters, and best represented with either Egyptians or Sea Peoples warships used in 14th Century BC. Also simple monoreme galleys are inferior to polyremes (even anything as basic as bireme and trireme), the differences are so clear that moner galleys and polyremes deserve a distince units and should be part of evolutionary process (Humankind seems to do this better, though 'Pentekonters' shouldn't be used as generic unit name. 'Moner' is a better unit name actually. And 'Trireme' (or polyremes, though diversifying polyremes into two types 'Shock' and 'Heavy' is another question.) should be an upgrade to moner.
Well Does a diversification of Polyremes into 'Shock Polyremes' (Biremes, Triremes and Quadriremes* or mayb Quinqueremes*), and 'Heavy Polyremes' (Also began with Quinqueremes, thought this means anything bigger and heavier) worth any efforts?
Though another diverged approach of galley evolution included Lembos and Liburnia, the latter was more developed, while it began as monoreme, Liburnia eventually evolved into multibank bireme (or even trireme of light configurations).
What about late developments... of Medieval and Early Modern? Sailers did NOT truly phased out galleys (rather marginalized them), and even in American War of Independence, the Continental Navy even has a fleet of galleys (or xebecs, though it has 'American' sails i'm not sure if these are moners or multibank triremes similiar to Romans and Byzantines but these have broadside guns), and this might be the last time galleys were used in any war. (
In case of a diversified 'Melee' and 'Ranged' ships. should Earlymodern 'melee warships' also be a kind of galley as well? (gun galleys though the main combat mode was still boarding)
*EDIT: Quadriremes had been primary warships for just 70 years, Classical era primary warships were either Trireme (seriously ram ships, which were slightly smaller and this is what Quadriremes evolved from), or Quinqueremes (significantly bigger than Quadriremes, also served as primary warships for everyone in the Medit sea for four centuries, more akin to US Navy Burkes and Ticoes today), this name is thus ill-suited to use in any games, while Triremes and Quinqueremes (or anything as lame as 'Shock Polyremes', 'Heavy Polyremes' or just 'Polyremes' seemed to be bettter name, though 'Shock' and 'Heavy' are what i took from Republic of Rome.)
Should there be evolutionary process represented as units (and how? since galleys were most developed and diversified in the Classical Era (Around 600 BC, first polyreme--the Bireme-- invented by Phoenicians (and possibly ones that carried Dido and her retinues to the coast of Libya which she chose a hill nearby to build a city (of Carthage) ... (and not slaughtering a bull/cow and shredded its remains to determine a city limit like what Greeks Mythology told us.) and that outperformed greek Pentekonter (a limit of moner). and Phoenicians prove how good biremes were compared to Greeks pentekonters (and more common triakonters which were smaller?).
Throuhgout the franchise history. F'xis seemed to take this not so corrrectly. too many times 'Galley' and 'Trireme' are interchangeable name despite the fact that 'Galley' in civ 6 should mean simple triakonters, and best represented with either Egyptians or Sea Peoples warships used in 14th Century BC. Also simple monoreme galleys are inferior to polyremes (even anything as basic as bireme and trireme), the differences are so clear that moner galleys and polyremes deserve a distince units and should be part of evolutionary process (Humankind seems to do this better, though 'Pentekonters' shouldn't be used as generic unit name. 'Moner' is a better unit name actually. And 'Trireme' (or polyremes, though diversifying polyremes into two types 'Shock' and 'Heavy' is another question.) should be an upgrade to moner.
Well Does a diversification of Polyremes into 'Shock Polyremes' (Biremes, Triremes and Quadriremes* or mayb Quinqueremes*), and 'Heavy Polyremes' (Also began with Quinqueremes, thought this means anything bigger and heavier) worth any efforts?
Though another diverged approach of galley evolution included Lembos and Liburnia, the latter was more developed, while it began as monoreme, Liburnia eventually evolved into multibank bireme (or even trireme of light configurations).
What about late developments... of Medieval and Early Modern? Sailers did NOT truly phased out galleys (rather marginalized them), and even in American War of Independence, the Continental Navy even has a fleet of galleys (or xebecs, though it has 'American' sails i'm not sure if these are moners or multibank triremes similiar to Romans and Byzantines but these have broadside guns), and this might be the last time galleys were used in any war. (
In case of a diversified 'Melee' and 'Ranged' ships. should Earlymodern 'melee warships' also be a kind of galley as well? (gun galleys though the main combat mode was still boarding)
*EDIT: Quadriremes had been primary warships for just 70 years, Classical era primary warships were either Trireme (seriously ram ships, which were slightly smaller and this is what Quadriremes evolved from), or Quinqueremes (significantly bigger than Quadriremes, also served as primary warships for everyone in the Medit sea for four centuries, more akin to US Navy Burkes and Ticoes today), this name is thus ill-suited to use in any games, while Triremes and Quinqueremes (or anything as lame as 'Shock Polyremes', 'Heavy Polyremes' or just 'Polyremes' seemed to be bettter name, though 'Shock' and 'Heavy' are what i took from Republic of Rome.)
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