New Beta Version - January 3rd (1/3)

[pineappledan]

Word on the street is Oracle is getting Free Temple next patch. Hagia Sophia will be getting something else, likely free Church. I think that's sounding pretty good then, Maybe just increase the culture/GAP boost to 500 or 600?

 

[Ziad]

Even a free Temple won't inspire me to build Oracle as it is. The instant effect is simply too weak, and Temple itself isn't all that really. (3 faith and some pressure can only do so much). The draw to Hagia Sophia was the free Prophet for Holy Sites that give a lot of yields. The temple was just a bonus.

 

[pineappledan]

While I'm sure it stings to see the strongest wonder in the game brought into line, I'm not so upset that I won't build the wonder on principle. The yields won't stay at 300/300 at any rate... probably

Hagia Sophia is no slouch on yields either. The addition of church will be a considerable buff, IMO.

 

[Ziad]

Hagia Sophia is no slouch on yields either. The addition of church will be a considerable buff, IMO.

Well yeah. A Church provides all the major benefits of the Temple (faith and pressure) with an actual effect (3 spreads). It's also a belief not a building.

With the buffs to investment, free buildings aren't what they used to be, especially those on the same tech tier. A temple which you can already build isn't comparable.

Just double the culture yield if anything. If that's too much then 50% increase on Culture and GA might be enough with the Temple, and only if you really want that culture and GA (which is fine).

 

[Deadstarre]

Free church shouldn't be a thing anywhere. 3 spreads is literally the whole benefit of picking that as a belief versus others. its not like the other buildings that gives yields you want in every city, you only need 1 church to just buy missionaries from there for the rest of the game.

 

[pineappledan]

Excellent point.

On a completely unrelated note, has anyone built Brandenburg Gate since the change to XP purchasing?

I imagine that wonder is hair-pullingly frustrating now, since it forces you to build units in that city to take advantage of it. That wonder has always been a city bottle-necking wonder. Without the ability to purchase units in the city for its full benefit, is that aspect of the wonder of much value anymore?

 

[IcyAngel]

Excellent point.

On a completely unrelated note, has anyone built Brandenburg Gate since the change to XP purchasing?

I imagine that wonder is hair-pullingly frustrating as a wonder now, since it forces you to build units in that city to take advantage of it. That wonder has always been a city bottle-necking wonder. Without the ability to purchase units in the city for its full benefit, is it of much value anymore?

+10 unit supply is pretty fantastic, if you ask me.

 

[Workerspam]

I’m enjoying the switch in purchasing power between buildings and units. Yes, I’m able to invest in a majority of the buildings I queue. I need to because I end up hard building most units, both military and civilian. It’s not just to avoid the experience hit; the economics are heavily tilted toward investing in buildings over buying units. The trade off (insta-units vs. halving building times) feels better this patch.

 

[Stalker0]

Oracle....I really think a boost to its yields is all we need. No reason to completely rethink the wonder.

 

[Kierkegaard]

Issue 1:
Anyone else playing MP with this version and where the AI you are at war with takes a very long time for their turn to process?
I remade the MP modpack and it's the AI takes still forever when you are at war. Anyone noticed this?

Issue 2:
Also the AI, Portugal in my game. I conquered 3 of her main cities AND her capital. Warscore was 100, as expected. Thought the peace-deal value jumped only from 1 - 8 (one time even 0). Surely this does not seem right.

Anyone else experiences this?

Issue 3:
In the same game Montezuma has 10 technologies and an income of -119 gold a turn, meaning he most likely has no positive science, gaining no more technology. he's been at 10 for a long while now.

Anyone else experienced this?



I want to verify if anyone else is having these issues before I post them on Github.
This game seems very messy and I am pondering what else could be the problem as nobody else mentioned these issues.

I do have a save game file attached for those who want to have a peek.



Lastly: I noticed I could not delete units outside my territory anymore. Is this something that has changed recently?

 

[Moi Magnus]

So its 25% more supply cap on emperor. Looks a bit unfair to me, do you think this is a good choice? Finished now my germany game from a previous patch, some of the other civs had some gold issues even in lategame. Maybe caused by too many units too.

Supply cap for AI is controversial. But it is here to compensate human cleverness. I do think a good player is at least as efficient with 4 units than a AI with 5 units.

 

[CrazyG]

Also the AI, Portugal in my game. I conquered 3 of her main cities AND her capital. Warscore was 100, as expected. Thought the peace-deal value jumped only from 1 - 8 (one time even 0). Surely this does not seem right.

Anyone else experiences this?

Does she have only one city left? What about luxuries?

My guess is she only has exactly 8 gold, that is all she can give you, so the maximum peace value is only 8. When she has no gold, she cannot give you anything, so the value is 0

 

[Lissindiel]

Is the xp game speed scaling still in?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Issue 3:
In the same game Montezuma has 10 technologies and an income of -119 gold a turn, meaning he most likely has no positive science, gaining no more technology. he's been at 10 for a long while now.

Anyone else experienced this?

Ive mentioned it 3 times already, warmonger civs have massivly gold problems in the early stage. Especially Montezuma. I think, the AI is calculating the value of military units too high and completly ignore their income. Montezuma in special, cause of his early UU. While I was at 30 technologies, he had 15 and was losing 15-50 gold per turn. For unknown reason, he was able to get 7 technologies in 25 turns, even he was always in dept. In this time, every 2 turns a spy have stolen some of my technologies, while I had constructed a constabulary and a counter spy in my capitol.

Supply cap for AI is controversial. But it is here to compensate human cleverness. I do think a good player is at least as efficient with 4 units than a AI with 5 units.

You maybe are right, but I think, this have downsides. A higher cap in units leads to more maintenance cost for AI and more yields for authority picks.

 

[Ziad]

By the way, were bad events ever looked at? I'm still getting the -1 to food to all farms event which just feels oppressive.

 

[Txurce]

By t256 my progress America is still even with the score leaders, and hanging in on tech, but boredom is pushing down my unhappiness, despite most of the available buildings. This would seem to be due to the prevalence of Tradition civs in the rest of the game (6 out of 8).

 

[Ziad]

By t256 my progress America is still even with the score leaders, and hanging in on tech, but boredom is pushing down my unhappiness, despite most of the available buildings. This would seem to be due to the prevalence of Tradition civs in the rest of the game (6 out of 8).

I've played around 6 games this patch (not to completion, testing some mods) and not one civ has chosen Progress. All go Tradition with the usual martial civs such as Zulu and Rome going Authority. I'm not even exaggerating. I kinda cry a bit inside when I see Carthage go Tradition.

This makes sense as the AI doesn't plan far ahead and the yields from Tradition are pretty significant now but I wouldn't think it's ideal for an entire ancient policy tree to be consistently ignored by the AI.

 

[MorphBer]

In my game 1st policy-tree distrubition is:
Tradition 2 (Persia,Indonesia)
Progress 3 (Zulu, Netherlands, Ethopia)
Authority 3 (Rome, The Huns, Germany (me))

Income has started to be an issue actually, not taking industry this time around has made it had to keep up investing in buildings and keeping my units upgraded, almost all of them are outdated.

I am ahead 5 techs and 3 Policies but the game is still competitve because all major AIs exept Zulu keep declaring on me even though Persia,Rome and Zulu are locked on one landmass...

 

[Ziad]

You had Progress? I wonder if it's a Marathon issue. 6 games with 0 progress civs can't be a coincidence... O.o

 

[Blue Ghost]

By the way, were bad events ever looked at? I'm still getting the -1 to food to all farms event which just feels oppressive.

That’s a Community Events addition, not in base VP. The advisor events are all pretty unbalanced, but you can just decline them.