New Beta Version - May 5th (5/5)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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Vaya
Warlord
Do Pioneers and Colonists cost the same as Settlers now? Because they do in my games. I also used to modify their costs with "NEW_CITY_BUILDING_VALUE_MODIFIER" and "ADVANCED_START_POPULATION_COST" - this slightly influnced Settlers as well (1 starting pop vs 4) but none of that works now. At least if I start in ancient era they simply cost the same as settlers, their cost does not seem to be increased by "free" population or buildings anymore.
Is it also possible to somehow increase settler cost scaling with each built city? I think that each new city only adds up about 9% of the base cost of first settler to actual settler cost, which is for example with default value on standard speed 15 hammers. This is not much in mid-late game. At least this could scale exponentially not linearly imho.
Is it also possible to somehow increase settler cost scaling with each built city? I think that each new city only adds up about 9% of the base cost of first settler to actual settler cost, which is for example with default value on standard speed 15 hammers. This is not much in mid-late game. At least this could scale exponentially not linearly imho.
I have a question if this AI diplomatic behaviour is intentional.
Since 4-14, I think, AI opponents declare war and then repeatedly propose peace treaties when there's some kind of deadlock situation, but they won't accept them ("Can you do a little better?" or "Almost" - but I have no possibilty to "do a little better", everything is greyed out "Cannot add to non-surrendering party in Peace Deal"). I found out that this happens when the war score is 0. If me or the AI have an advantage, peace treaties are possible.
Because of this I'm at nearly permanent war with one or two AIs. I would even gladly pay a price for peace and the AIs are like "Come on, let's end this war" but the game won't let me.
Since 4-14, I think, AI opponents declare war and then repeatedly propose peace treaties when there's some kind of deadlock situation, but they won't accept them ("Can you do a little better?" or "Almost" - but I have no possibilty to "do a little better", everything is greyed out "Cannot add to non-surrendering party in Peace Deal"). I found out that this happens when the war score is 0. If me or the AI have an advantage, peace treaties are possible.
Because of this I'm at nearly permanent war with one or two AIs. I would even gladly pay a price for peace and the AIs are like "Come on, let's end this war" but the game won't let me.
Bug. Post on Github please.
One interesting note on Apostolic, it got an implicit buff because of the new spy system. Because your capital is virtually guaranteed to have a perma -25% growth at the moment, the food of Apostolic can bypass that and so is worth a bit more than it was before. So just a datapoint in thinking about the new belief change.
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General_Drax
Warlord
It's just me but sometimes when i conquer a city I get no options just auto annex.
Not always. Hard to reproduce. Vox Populi 5-5-2 only.
I can still raze after annex as usual but courthouse is not invested anymore and getting the usual bug that i cannot stop razing after starting it.
Edit: just reported su github as well.
Not always. Hard to reproduce. Vox Populi 5-5-2 only.
I can still raze after annex as usual but courthouse is not invested anymore and getting the usual bug that i cannot stop razing after starting it.
Edit: just reported su github as well.
I've had this bug for ages. Probably a memory issue as it only happens after a long session. That's why I save my game just before capturing a city and if the option doesn't show up, reloading will make it appear.
General_Drax
Warlord
Ty. I'll use this workaround then.
Thank you very much, sir !
I always have auto save every turn on to help with issues like these.
Overall, the spy changes feel like they slow the game down by about 50 turns, since Spies are hugely nerfed compared to what they could do before. Previously I could steal 3-4 techs in a game. Now, Spies just feel kind of irritating to use - and not that impactful relative to before. Overall, this means that it’s much harder to catch-up on higher difficulties. But it’s not that it feels like the AI us playing well. It feels like the AI is getting ahead because of its bonuses and then the game is about catching up - almost like Vanilla.
Apostolic is good still for food and gives strong faith, so it’s still workable. Im not sure when I’d want Way of the Pilgrim. I’d need to want wide food that early and I’d probably just get happiness issues. I made the mistake of going Apostolic on an authority play, which just resulted in an unhappy capital. I imagine the wide food with Way of the Pilgrim would do the same.
The new puppets feel bad. Also, if they’re staying, and the spy changes are staying, then every policy, building, etc that interacts with puppets and spies needs to be checked for balance.
I’m not sure if I like the spy or puppet changes, tbh.
Apostolic is good still for food and gives strong faith, so it’s still workable. Im not sure when I’d want Way of the Pilgrim. I’d need to want wide food that early and I’d probably just get happiness issues. I made the mistake of going Apostolic on an authority play, which just resulted in an unhappy capital. I imagine the wide food with Way of the Pilgrim would do the same.
The new puppets feel bad. Also, if they’re staying, and the spy changes are staying, then every policy, building, etc that interacts with puppets and spies needs to be checked for balance.
I’m not sure if I like the spy or puppet changes, tbh.
Thanks.
Now I saw that this issue was already reported on Github one day before my forum post. Seems to be limited to "CP only".
Personally I'm not a fan of newpuppets, but I was out of the loop on it so I'd like to see more rationale as to why it was changed so drastically.
New spies, in some form, are definitely staying; well, put another way, advanced actions and heists were already stripped out of the DLL. So kludgey.
G
The main reason was iteroi noticed that puppets were creating very large gold deficits for the AI in certain cases. Also, we were having a lot of debate as to whether puppets should always build defense buildings right off the bat, so it was a two birds one stone scenario.
I still like the compromise I offered, have puppets build buildings up to (and not including) Industrial era buildings. Industrial is where the cost-benefit analysis of buildings starts to go south, and you have to decide when its best to use those buildings vs just ignore them. This is also when the gold maintenance really ramps up (often going from -2 in renassiance to -6 in industrial).
I think that would handle the vast majority of the gold issue, and ensure puppets build some core infrastructure but don't waste time on the expensive buildings they will never get benefit out.
DizzKneeLand33
Fall from Heaven 2 still rocks
Is there a way to make the maintenance for puppets half (or whatever fraction is deemed appropriate) that of normal cities? Maybe that would be a better solution for the AI gold deficit (and the human's for that matter).
phantomaxl1207
King
If a puppet gets that far into development, it should be a worthwhile investment to annex it at that point.
New puppets in the current form weren’t discussed on this forum - it came from @ilteroi through GitHub. It started from a discussion on this forum, a bit, as to whether puppets should have specific programming for buildings, including as to building defensive building immediately. In some scenarios, puppets without defensive buildings were silly - industrial naval could just take them back instantly.
Current puppets are just bad. They’re either useful for the territory and buildings they have at that moment or you have to annex them. Imperialism doesn’t have an option to do anything with puppets anymore. You can’t puppet a city, let it develop , and then annex it. You have to annex it after it builds walls and castle or it will just run the gold process.
With regards to spies, I’d offer that they were one of the major rubber band mechanics to enable catching up. I’d like to see them keep that. Spies in the current form don’t really help with that - they need to be buffed.
What if spies could still steal techs - it’s just a much riskier action?
But they don’t develop at all now.
InkAxis
King
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- Feb 24, 2020
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I like the idea of Puppets building stuff until industrial era buildings. It makes sense and solves the maintenance cost issue.
It doesn't completely solve the issue with them not building walls. I would just make walls automatically the first thing it builds, as currently it's random - sometimes the governor decides to build walls immediately and it's much easier to defend and other times they never get built.
It doesn't completely solve the issue with them not building walls. I would just make walls automatically the first thing it builds, as currently it's random - sometimes the governor decides to build walls immediately and it's much easier to defend and other times they never get built.
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