Newsweek's top 10

[Stratofortress]

A simple look at the statistics concerning poverty and theft, violence, murder and other crimes, between the USA and a "welfare state", even when looking at percentages of the population, shows that the "welfare state" is doing much better than the USA.

Considering that US is much more complicated entity than Sweden or any other welfare state?

 

[cgannon64]

Doesn't Sweden have the highest tax rate in the world?

 

[Birdjaguar]

So here's my final question : WHY BRITAIN IS NOT HERE ?!!!

Answer: Kippers

 

[Stratofortress]

Doesn't Sweden have the highest tax rate in the world?

Sweden has a top corporate tax rate of just 28 percent.
Personal taxes are high, but I think that North Korea's personal taxes are higher.

 

[crystal]

Doesn't Sweden have the highest tax rate in the world?

Don't ask it like that -- rather ask "doesn't Sweden have the best public services in the world?"

 

[Birdjaguar]

The best way to determine which countries are the "best" is to list them in order of where people actually would choose to live if they could move anywhere. Hard data to get. You can get it indirectly by counting Immigration/emmigration figures, illegal immigration estimates and by noting which countries are the hardest to immigrate to (like New Zealand). Countries that have very restrictive immigration laws are usually correctly afraid of being over run by immigrants.

This or similar methodology evens out the cultural bias you see in the Newsweek article.

 

[_Philospher_]

What, no Switzerland? I'm suprised.

 

[djs488]

hold on guys a few things u missed about the article. First of all, though newsweek is an American publishment, this was the INTERNATIONAL version of the mag. the US version's cover depicted an iPod, not huge letters saying "The world's best countries". in fact, the US version didnt even include that article. i just happened to pick it up in heathrow airport because I was in Britain on vacation. also...

samildanach: I don't think this top 10 list only looks at quality of living, as the USA got #2 by being a powerhouse, and Singapore for being clean.

it has a clean government

 

[The Last Conformist]

@Stratofortress: I'd like to know why you'd consider corporatism to be a more "extreme" form of capitalism than laissez faire.

 

[Masquerouge]

1) Sweden - High marks for health care and innovation
2) America - Geopolitical and entreprenurial powerhouse
3) Norway - Tops on the UN development index in 2003 and 2004
4) Japan - Little country that could: industrial titan, major donor
5) Holland - Combines a healthy liberal ethic with business savvy
6) Australia - Drawing energy from recent immmigration influx
7) France - Culture, cuisine... and still the catalyst for Europe
8) Ireland - Transformed itself from backwater to outsourcing center
9) Singapore - City-state with a corporate mind-set, clean government
10) Canada - Quiet, but a model for the open, well-rounded society

This list is SOOO politically correct, it's unbelievable. I'm really amazed they didn't manage to squeeze in an African city so that all continents can be happy. I guess there are not many Newsweek readers in Africa.

And the bit about Australia just makes me laugh. How many immigrant boats were denied access to Australia in the last years ?

And Singapore actually punishes you just for chewing gum. Great country, huh ?

Oh well.

 

[Perfection]

Why must you all continue this debate. Don't you see the foolishness of rating countries.

Countries have:
Economies
Arts
Culture
History
Political Leanings
Geography
Government Styles
Issues
Mannerisms
Philosophies
National Identies
Futures

Do you really think that one can judge countries and rank them as best and fully take into account all that has to do with the country? Hell no! Ranking countries as "best overall" is utterly stupid. You can't cram millions of people from cultures spanning thousands of years into effective scores without leaving out a whole lot that makes that country a country.

So let's cut the crap, say rating countries overall is stupid, and be done with it!

 

[Grisu]

any such list that hasn't got switzerland on it is false anyway j/k

I'm not kidding on the false part though, it's simply impossible to compare countries like that. even if you made a dozen such lists, one for each category, it wouldn't be correct, and always reflects the opionions of the ones doing the research/article.

 

[Adebisi]

I beg to disagree. Even though I didn't like Sweden on the top (Norwegians are better than the Swedes! ), they are not a failure of any kind. Equality leads to a more stable country, less crime and more friendlyness among people.
You are correct that communism was a failure. I predict extreme capitalism to be a failure in the end as well. I'll even bet that Sweden will be around long after the USA has gone into the history books.

I regard Norway, Sweden and the rest of the Nordic countries as better coutries to live in than big, powerfull, extremely captialistic countries like the USA.

A simple look at the statistics concerning poverty and theft, violence, murder and other crimes, between the USA and a "welfare state", even when looking at percentages of the population, shows that the "welfare state" is doing much better than the USA.

No. This is simply not true.

Read this WSJ article for example, based on a Swedish study.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005242

Higher GDP per capita allows the average American to spend about $9,700 more on consumption every year than the average European. So Yanks have by far more cars, TVs, computers and other modern goods. "Most Americans have a standard of living which the majority of Europeans will never come anywhere near," the Swedish study says.

But what about equality? Well, the percentage of Americans living below the poverty line has dropped to 12% from 22% since 1959. In 1999, 25% of American households were considered "low income," meaning they had an annual income of less than $25,000. If Sweden--the very model of a modern welfare state--were judged by the same standard, about 40% of its households would be considered low-income.

In other words poverty is relative, and in the U.S. a large 45.9% of the "poor" own their homes, 72.8% have a car and almost 77% have air conditioning, which remains a luxury in most of Western Europe. The average living space for poor American households is 1,200 square feet. In Europe, the average space for all households, not just the poor, is 1,000 square feet.

The difference here is decades of growth not pushed down by regulations, taxes and a huge public sector. What you call "extreme capitalism".

Here are some GDP per capita stats for you:

1970             1980             2001
1. Switzerland   1. USA           1. Luxembourg
2. USA           2. Switzerland   2. USA
3. Luxembourg    3. Canada        3. Ireland
4. Sweden        4. Luxembourg    4. Norway
                 (...)            (...) 
                 8. Sweden        17. Sweden

I guess you would have liked being a rich landlord in a feudal age...

If I would be much more wealthy as a slave in the feudal age than in present day Sweden then yes, I probably would. However, I consider that extremely unlikely

 

[Adebisi]

Doesn't Sweden have the highest tax rate in the world?

Yes, the Swedish taxes are insanely high, 54% of GDP. It's not bearable in the long run.

 

[jst666]

So here's my final question : WHY BRITAIN IS NOT HERE ?!!!

[UPPERCASE]With their superior cuisine and all!??!?!?!?![/UPPERCASE]

 

[jst666]

Every western country is capitalistic. Difference beign, is the big social security programs.

I disagree. Every western country lives under rules of market economy, which does differ from capitalism. At least I understand capitalism as you said "extreme capitalism", where everyone is on their own. In market economy the government can have a lot to say in economy, and their can be extensive social security and other socialistic safety mechanisms.

Or perhpas this is just a linguistic issue...

 

[jst666]

And Singapore actually punishes you just for chewing gum. Great country, huh ?

People are flogged as punishment from vandalism.

"The highest per capita use of the death penalty is Singapore, with a population of about four million and an average of 70 executions per year, mostly for drugs offenses."

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Sounds like theyre using them as a source of energy, like in the Matrix.

I enjoy welcoming newcomers to our country. I just know they are going to give us a warm fuzzy feeling...

 

[jst666]

Originally Posted by Cheetah
A simple look at the statistics concerning poverty and theft, violence, murder and other crimes, between the USA and a "welfare state", even when looking at percentages of the population, shows that the "welfare state" is doing much better than the USA.

No. This is simply not true.
Read this WSJ article for example, based on a Swedish study.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005242

In the article it seems that the standard of living is counted by number of TVs and cars. Someone from USA can tell whether they consider living in the urban areas safe, or do they feel secure. If they should be very unlucky and be left unemployed, what would their future be like.

It depends so much what you value. I don't give a rats a*s about how many TV sets I have, or do I have the latest freezer filled with high quality filé mignon fresh from brazilian pampas. I feel very safe and untroubled by earthly issues in living in a nordic wellfare state.

Here are some GDP per capita stats for you:

http://www.jamaicalyrics.com.ar/index.php?mod=lyric&id=1934

 

[Stratofortress]

I disagree. Every western country lives under rules of market economy, which does differ from capitalism. At least I understand capitalism as you said "extreme capitalism", where everyone is on their own. In market economy the government can have a lot to say in economy, and their can be extensive social security and other socialistic safety mechanisms.

Or perhpas this is just a linguistic issue...

What I explained under "Extreme Capitalism" is corporatism, and corporatism is not free from regulations, the more you drive away from the laissez-faire capitalism the more you get regulations (corporations benefit from the regulations under coproratism).

Every western country is liberal democracy (classical liberal) with none beign perfect, but all beign capitalist.