No temple? No cathedral

izmirli

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
10
Location
Turkey/Izmir
Well sometimes you guys say us not to build temples cathedrals and so on except marketplace.How can we produce units and research at the same time at a small map or bigger than it.Think that there are 8 civilization with you and the map is small(or 7 i do not remember.)i can not understand how our population goes above 10 if we do not have cathedrals.There are 7 opposers and we can not have many luxuries.How will the population grow ?
 
Secure the luxuries, either by trade or conquest. Those sheilds you used to make those two building could have gotten you those luxuries, plus more land. Use the lux slider if need be. Remember that if you have a marketplace, you get one happy for the first two, two for the third, and it keeps increasing.
 
if you absolutely can't get the last luxes, then build the temples/cathedrals if you need to. But even if the AI settles right next to a lux, you can often settle next to a second one, even if it's in the middle of the others.

also, if a civ has extra luxuries but is already trading with someone else, you can sometimes get them into a war with that civ so they will trade luxes with someone one...like you!!
 
izmirli said:
i can not understand how our population goes above 10 if we do not have cathedrals.There are 7 opposers and we can not have many luxuries.How will the population grow ?

If you are founded upon a river or a lake, it can grow to 12. If not you have to build an aqua.
 
You are probably right. In that you still do not need cath. You may well want a temple, but you probably do not need it right away.

You connect lux or import them, if you can, If not you use the lux slider. If you find you have to or it makes mor esense to, you can use specialist. Scientist prefered, then tax probably and finally an entertainer or two if that is the only good way.

It is not going to be the best way in a productive city, but could be in a100% corrupt one.
 
btw - with a full bank of opponents, there will be lots of each type of lux. The only time where you really have a problem is on tiny maps with a minimum # of opponents, cause there might be only 1 of a couple types of luxuries...
 
i think my problem is not using the luxury slider.i keep it always %0 and i make my researchs finish always at 4 turns starting from middle ages.i do not use granary bc i can just settle to 12-13 cities and the other civilizations also do the same thing and the land finishes.:mad:
And when i want to import and export luxuries ; i give 2 luxuries and they give me just 1.Else they do not accept ; and i do not want them to be powerful so i just buy luxuries by money or sometimes with my ally.That's all.it is unfair when trading luxuries.Sometimes they accept when they need iron or horses ; but i do not give them iron.Or should i trade my iron?:rolleyes:

i play regent and the map is standart.All random is chosen
 
I am not a fan of trading more than 1 lux to any civ. I will do it for a backward civ. I would rather just do without the lux, until I can take it form them.

Iron is just another resource. I prefer not to trade it, unless i have to. It also depends pon the time in the game. If they have steam, it is too useful to give them. If it is before steam, but after knight, then it is ok.

One or two granaries ealy can still help in the right city. It could let you make workers faster to do task or to add to other towns and get to max size quickly.
 
izmirli said:
i think my problem is not using the luxury slider.i keep it always %0 and i make my researchs finish always at 4 turns starting from middle ages.i do not use granary bc i can just settle to 12-13 cities and the other civilizations also do the same thing and the land finishes.:mad:
And when i want to import and export luxuries ; i give 2 luxuries and they give me just 1.Else they do not accept ; and i do not want them to be powerful so i just buy luxuries by money or sometimes with my ally.That's all.it is unfair when trading luxuries.Sometimes they accept when they need iron or horses ; but i do not give them iron.Or should i trade my iron?:rolleyes:

i play regent and the map is standart.All random is chosen

They charge you for their lux resources according to how many happy faces their lux resources will generate for you.

If you have a small empire and they have a big one, you could trade 1 of your lux for lots of theirs (assuming your small empire has the opportunity to trade a lux)

If you have 13 cities one more lux will generate 13 happiness. If you have marketplaces around it could be even more.

If you are big and powerful, it may be more useful to conquer extra lux resources.
 
I would also like to add, if you are not planning to do any conquest, a big army is not going to help you much, so if that is your choice, it would indeed be better to invest in temples and caths.
 
Well on huge map 18 civs marathon, get all the luxury is not a option, so analise your game and se if it is possible...
 
AutomatedTeller said:
Usually, I end up trading tech for luxes, usually out of date or optional ones.
Yes, that's the key, isn't it? Absolutely the key. And as izmirli posted above, he likes to aim for research in 4. That should give more than enough techs for trading.

Oh and a little tip for those that haven't figured it out. One should include 1 gpt from oneself to the AI in any tech-for-lux deal. In 20 turns' time they'll come along to complain that they don't think selling silk, etc, for 1 gpt is such a good thing, and at that point one offers them another tech plus 1 gpt. Keeps them locked into the (bilateral) deal, else it will just lapse.

Izmirli, You should also do this if you offer them straight cash for the lux, ie include 1 gpt there too. NB! If you have no techs to trade, it is much much better to offer the AIs cash than gpt payments. The AIs should always be paying you the gpt, not the other way around.

When selling a tech, you need to visit all the AIs and watch very carefully what they can offer. The very first time you sell a tech, it will be at its most valuable, and in such cases you'll often find that the AI will offer both a luxury and gpt for it anyway. Indeed, its not unknown for such a "monopoly tech" to earn two luxuries and many 100s in gpt.

There are also occasions where you might need to send out workers to road the luxuries for the AI yourself. One other quirk: if you have 1 worker who will road in 1 turn and you add another, it will complete right then, and right then you set up the tech-trading deal. That's if the lux is very scarce and you're worried about losing the chance.

I'm no great expert but in my last Demigod trial (huge pangea, 16 civs), which was generally relatively peaceful, I got all 8 luxuries that way and kept them tied down throughout.

The other thing for people to keep in mind is that the gaps between towns should be 2-3 tiles, seldom 4 like the AI does it. Generally each city should average 12 usable tiles. Then as the game goes on, you do more and more irrigating (and railroading of the irrigation) in towns outside of the core. Cities with 2-3 tile gaps can easily support upwards of 16-20 pop, many of whom will be specialists, since there are no longer any free tiles to process. The presence of specialists does, in a way, suppress unhappiness, provided one has enough irrigation to feed them.

So if you're having a happiness problem with only some towns, and don't want to up the slider, then increasing irrigation and making some specialists might be an idea. Even an occasional entertainer should never be excluded if it's only one or two towns involved.

That having been said, I don't see anything whatsoever wrong with temples and cathedrals if one is following a builder strat and the circumstances allow one the luxury of building them. It all depends so very much on the goals chosen and the strategy adopted.
 
Thank you guys for your replies.i was playing regent and i was techically advanced but moved to monarch and things changed:D i have been always techically backwards till i found steam power :)my military was always weak and first iroquies attacked me and i played defensively later made peace with them.Later i trade with them and and i have 4 luxes.things have gone good when i traded luxes.But the problem was my military was still weak to them.Later Spain gave me spices and wanted technology from me ; they were polite.I traded my technology and 1 turn later they attacked me:mad: i made all my neighbours fight with Spain i did not need to fight at all.After steam power i have been slowly technically advanced. Russia is powerful than me but i made mutual protection pact with them and switched my government to communism.20 turns later i will attack Russia.i think i am gonna win my first monarch game but i still have problems.Firstly i can not make a huge military at first ages so i am always weak early at the game.To be more powerful i must have my technology but if i research technologies i can not support my military under republic.In early times they always say "Accept this deal or..." and i accept it.Because else they declare war with me :) i gave Mongols wines as a gift and gave things to other civilizations too:goodjob:
What is the keypoint to be technologically advanced and have a good army at the same time at monarch level :) Thanks
 
izmirli said:
Russia is powerful than me but i made mutual protection pact with them...

be very reluctant to make mpp's. they will get you into wars you don't want that simultaneously break good trades and trash your reputation.

other than that though you are doing great :goodjob:
 
so, don't worry about demands. The higher the level, the more common the demands for tech are, which is why people will often trade them away. Nothing more painful than getting republic demanded of you when you want to use it in trades...

in general, there are 2 routes to go early: peaceful expansion, or aggressive expansion. If you go peaceful expansion (build lots of cities), you will be weak in the ancient ages. This is the way most games go.

Aggressive expansion means building mainly barracks and military first and take cities from neighbors.
 
rysingsun said:
be very reluctant to make mpp's. they will get you into wars you don't want that simultaneously break good trades and trash your reputation.

other than that though you are doing great :goodjob:

yes i know.under republic i don't make MPPs.under anarch or communism.i used to break treats before(i watch out trades too).For example when i attack to a civilization and after few turns later my citizens get unhappy bc of war.i make peace and attack again at the same turn:lol: but now i always respect my trades and treaties :)
But at the last game AI broke a treatie as i told.:mad:

AutomatedTeller said:
so, don't worry about demands. The higher the level, the more common the demands for tech are, which is why people will often trade them away. Nothing more painful than getting republic demanded of you when you want to use it in trades...

in general, there are 2 routes to go early: peaceful expansion, or aggressive expansion. If you go peaceful expansion (build lots of cities), you will be weak in the ancient ages. This is the way most games go.

Aggressive expansion means building mainly barracks and military first and take cities from neighbors.

i understand.i always accept the demands at the early times because i start always peacefully.My military is weak early times.But i write down the civilization's name which demands to me and attack them 2000 years later :mischief:

By the way at monarch level with Ottos ; alpha-wri-CoL-Philo-Rep does not work as i have experienced.
 
I can still secure the republic slingshot 9 out of 10 times in Monarch level. Only if I am at war early or have royally screwed up will I be beaten to it.
 
izmirli said:
By the way at monarch level with Ottos ; alpha-wri-CoL-Philo-Rep does not work as i have experienced.
What settings have you used? Are you researching at full pace?
 
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