Nobles' Club 336: Bismarck of Germany

[BornInCantaloup]

I meant I am not sure if some of the proposed strategies are for maximising winning chance or winning with style points. Not just you but some other posters.

Should I feel called out, here ? I proposed some nonsense, sure, but I didn't hide it.
I also gave my honest opinion about what the best opener is. Maybe you missed that ?

BW -> AH -> Pottery is, imho, a pretty unforgiving choice , specifically on Deity difficulty. BW -> AH sets you up for expansion with no commerce support and the delay towards Pottery is a huge handicap. This is the classic scenario where your own maintenance kills you (but then, maybe not on this map).
Agriculture first (playing Car, Pool and Karaoke) forces a Wheel follow up, which can be defensible if one commits to the Great Wall. It is a considerable delay towards Bronze, though. I guess one has to question the value of the Wall, right ?
Ditching the Wall and going Fishing first (workboat completes at size 2 with 6 hpt, which is huge) allows a direct Agri -> BW line. Fishing has ample time to pay off and the earlier Bronze allows for the best REx (provided you don't die to barbs). Maybe then you can even get an Academy, if you do not have wonders spread over several cities.

I do not feel qualified to comment on later matters,
Regards

ps : to come back on the map. Some maps allow for some very special things that one could not try elsewhere. They are an occasion.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Your play is fine.

Spoiler :

After Stonehenge, I would go fishing, archery, mining. Pump out those archers. We're going theology and apostolic palace.

The appeal of Great Wall is great spy. I would be disappointed with getting something else by gene pool pollution.

I don't want fishing before my happiness cap is increased and I am ready to whip libraries. I cannot handle so much food. By extension I really don't want sailing and even more food.

I believe writing before AH because open borders gives foreign trade routes and earlier accumulation of +1 "years of peace".

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Very sorry for the poor choice of words. I saw your excellent video after I stopped playing. I meant I am not sure if some of the proposed strategies are for maximising winning chance or winning with style points. Not just you but some other posters.

My confusion still stands about risk and reward.

Spoiler :

If we can get the Great Lighthouse, then the rest of the game becomes easier.

But the chance and cost of failure are high. I take high risks in difficult starts. This start does not seem difficult.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback on risk/reward.

Spoiler :

I agree there's a bit of style points involved. I think keeping using a narrow window of wonder building (2 turns lighthouse and 5 turns GLH) helps the risk/reward tradeoff - at worst you lose the hammers some turns towards a settler/worker and gain gold at 150% production to commerce efficiency - something that covers the expenses for diverting to sailing. In that sense, it comes down to looking at the map in 2200 BC and deciding, this might set me back a little bit, but it's not game-breaking if I fail at it.

Likewise, I am curious if @BornInCantaloup can still reach a strong position with his limit testing.

 

[soundjata]

The appeal of Great Wall is great spy. I would be disappointed with getting something else by gene pool pollution.

Could you explain this appeal? I'm just guessing it's about infiltration and tech stealing?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Yes. Tech stealing needs fewer commerce to get technology than direct research. Infiltration is an immediate 3000 espionage points, more than other great people. But for an early great spy, I prefer Scotland Yard.

The fun begins once I steal civil service.

City revolt is also good for attacking with horse archers and knights.

What espionage cannot do is "first to XYZ" so you still need some direct research.

 

[antimony]

Played to 1050AD

Spoiler :

Got Great Artist from Music for a GA, and 6 GS in total (including with ~30% odds against 70% GE).
Bulb Philo, 2x Edu, Lib, saving 2 GS for Astro after getting PPress for trading Edu to Romans.

Didn't need more Great People, but still built the Taj Mahal from chops and whip overflow in Berlin, in order to switch to war civics (Rep-Caste-Paci to Police State-Slavery-Theocracy) for free and get some extra production.

Lib-MT in 660 AD, got a stack of 20 Cuirs in 920 AD. Took Churchill's border city (Hastings) on the side closest to his capital, and pillaged his iron that was in a city not too far, but it's been a very slow advance since then and I don't think my production of Cuirs is sufficient for a drawn out war. Part of the problem is that the land around his core cities is full of hills even if the cities themselves are on flatland, which negates most of the Cuirs mobility advantage. But perhaps the biggest issue is the lack of food in my land (only 4 cities had a "good" surplus for growing fast / whipping). Some of my cities are doing pretty well slow-building Cuirs with Forge + Police State (+ Bureau in cap), but it's not enough to rush that big stack to get started, and not enough to keep up with the production of deity AI at equal number of cities.

Anyway, I'm curious to see how far others got on this map.