Nobles' Club 336: Bismarck of Germany

[sampsa]

Liked without watching, I know it will be good!

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Spoiler :

It's insane how stronk the 3 cc tile is. You can even afford to build a stonerhenge and still get the settler out T36! Just a worker behind of typical games I guess, but lots of compensation for it. Shrine is horrible, but at least you can get it early!

Yes, much agreed.

Spoiler :

At least about the 3H city tile. We all know how game changing a 2H city tile already is, or a worker steal, or the like...
The settler at size 3 is a 13 turns build, without any improved tile... Yes, that is insane.
The Stonehenge being a turn 22 build (eot) is also baffling. However, the benefits quickly fall out and, without a worker, the subsequent wonders will be delayed. Who cares about the monuments ? We're in it for the

The lack of a worker, should not be dismissed
Compare this with a map where, say, De Gaulle can go Worker into Myst, Bronze : sure, he will get the Stonehenge later but the next orders of business will come at a much faster pace. Put otherwise : there is no use getting the first item extra fast if it delays the whole other things. The problem, here (if you wanna build the Henge), is that the forest spam puts a huge dent in the tech path. Even a second hill to mine would be a huge game changer.
So, I wouldn't say there is ample compensation.
The Shrine, otoh, I find quite appealing, especially in the capitol : this is now a Wall Street game.
I'm just in it for the memes, I know I'll be running behind for 200 turns before I can find compensation.
Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I decided to indulge a little - this game is a good example for early game planning. Here's a video explaining (cc) how worker micro and tech decisions in the first 75 turns can set up a strong base for winning games.

Edit: You'll have to suffer my choice of game music lol.

Popping borders in Hamburg like a pro

Spoiler :

Gotta love a forward wonder.

I'm a little surprised to see you did not go for what I've come to call the "CPK special", aka the earliest possible academy.
However, your choice of wonders does seem very strong. The Pyramids + GLH is such a killer combo. I didn't realize how fast the GLH could be built
Also your worker overload looks very handy

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Little did they know that...?

Exactly ! Little did they know that... by turn 40...

Spoiler :

... the Junglemen would be the ones to make the first move and, to their understandable dismay, the People of Berlin would have to postpone the Great Conquest of their natural habitat.



In order to secure Berlin's surroundings, the German cities were tasked with training specialized workers that would clear the nearest forests and augment the sentinels' line of sight. In the process, they would also bring back precious timber into The City.
However, all were not joy and laughter in Germanistan. Indeed, unrest was stirring as the People lamented that work had not yet begun on a Great Temple to the Goddess Artemis.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Popping borders in Hamburg like a pro

Spoiler :

Gotta love a forward wonder.

I'm a little surprised to see you did not go for what I've come to call the "CPK special", aka the earliest possible academy.
However, your choice of wonders does seem very strong. The Pyramids + GLH is such a killer combo. I didn't realize how fast the GLH could be built
Also your worker overload looks very handy

Spoiler :

Yeah, 7 turns in total for lighthouse + GLH. Very penalty averse!

Worker overload --> can't get hurt by barbarians if you have no improvements *taps head*.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Can't get hurt by barbarians if ... *taps head*.

Oh, you are getting way ahead of myself, here. This was 100% my next update T46 :

Spoiler :

The ENTIRE babarian attempt at pillaging our wealth has been thwarted. Not a SINGLE improvement has been endangered, despite their recklessness.
Instead, the "walls" of Berlin are now bathing in blood, which we will use to fertilize the plains nearby (once there aren't that many forests anymore, that is).



Meanwhile, the Hindu faith has reached Hamburg and the city provides us with a nice panorama over the South-Eastern peninsula.

 

[soundjata]

T71

Spoiler :

I stayed size 1 for a little while (settler>worker>settler)


Failgod on the mids

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

T71

Spoiler :

I stayed size 1 for a little while (settler>worker>settler)


Failgod on the mids

Spoiler :

How did Munich live in that first picture?

 

[Nick723]

Spoiler :

How did Munich live in that first picture?

Spoiler :

There’s a big wall to the west that mysteriously keeps out the barbarian hordes…

 

[Nick723]

I decided to indulge a little - this game is a good example for early game planning. Here's a video explaining (cc) how worker micro and tech decisions in the first 75 turns can set up a strong base for winning games.

Edit: You'll have to suffer my choice of game music lol.

This is just amazing - all just so smooth!

One question to help me understand.

Spoiler :

I’m surprised you didn’t revolt into slavery earlier, particularly when the double switch became available. Even without a granary, wouldn’t it have been quicker to get those last 2 settlers out of Berlin by whipping?

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

This is just amazing - all just so smooth!

One question to help me understand.

Spoiler :

I’m surprised you didn’t revolt into slavery earlier, particularly when the double switch became available. Even without a granary, wouldn’t it have been quicker to get those last 2 settlers out of Berlin by whipping?

Spoiler :

I suppose an argument could be made for whipping the last one into a granary. I think of the game as tile acquisitions - if I'm working effective tiles, I don't have a reason to lose tiles to gain tiles later. It's different for whipping items post granary - there, it's sort of saying that you're accelerating the productivity of tiles.

OR, you can think of building Settlers and Workers as inhibiting granary growth - which is itself a multiplier. If you whip a settler, and you still need to build settlers you aren't getting any productivity from the granary anymore.

 

[Qactus]

Spoiler :

There’s a big wall to the west that mysteriously keeps out the barbarian hordes…

Spoiler :

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I'll match the 1000 BC landmark, which I've played to a while ago, now :

Spoiler :

Fastforwarding with a diaporama. Less talk, more pics :

Temple of Artemis. 2 workers. 2 warriors headed north to secure the jungle. Hamburg grows to 2 :


First great person born is a merchant. Let's not bulb Agriculture. 3rd worker and settler for city 3 in the process :



Agriculture done. Roading out to the stone :



Wooh ! 1st improvement complete ! Hamburg aims for size 3. Berlin aims for size 5. Munich aims for size 2.


Pyramids complete. Next turn we revolt and do a double switch. Berlin starts a settler and we try to secure some land to the north (unsure about the 2nd city location).
Both Munich and Hamburg have a warrior 1 turn from completion, which are delayed in order to save on unit costs. More pop will make those units affordable :

 

[soundjata]

T100

Spoiler :

Currency...


Great spy is fogbusting against evil barb galleys


Closest barb city is on a hill with 4 unpromoted archers and 3 workers.
We got 6 level2 axes, scattered.
Smash the copper a few turns ago. Enable the best unit in the game

Spoiler :

Warriors. We had lived with 2 until that point.

We should not go over 11 cities until...

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

@antimony

I won't play on. I am more interested in the next game. You seem to be the only one serious about winning.

Spoiler :

I think the Great Wall is clearly the optimal play. Early great spy is too good. I wanted the two commerce from improved marble more than an extra production in the city centre. I wanted to reach pottery in time.

I don't like going for the Great Lighthouse because I don't need fishing and sailing. Also look at Augustus Caesar's traits and starting techs. Plus if war breaks out, I don't have enough foreign cities to trade with. Pyramids is good because even if we fail, we get a ton of failgold. Just go wheel, pottery, writing, alphabet, nothing fancy.

I don't like the aesthetics, music, and curaisser route unless it's a pangaea map. There are not enough neighbours to make sure that someone has alphabet to trade for it.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

@antimony
I won't play on. I am more interested in the next game. You seem to be the only one serious about winning.

Who spat in your tea lol?

 

[antimony]

@sylvanllewelyn

Spoiler :

Did you check CPK's video? I think fishing 2nd was really key there. I had not given it enough consideration perhaps because of the pregame talk about how clams are weak tiles. Which is true by themselves, but as a secondary food source after wet corn, and as a fast source of commerce, fishing here (in addition to connecting cities) basically allowed delay of both AH and pottery, making the subsequent masonry - wonder building line financially sustainable.

On another note you were correct about Alpha not being available soon enough here, but given I was behind and wanted the best chance at Great Library, I chose to beeline Literature. Synergy with pyramids is just too good to pass.

Sorry forgot spoiler earlier

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Who spat in your tea lol?

Very sorry for the poor choice of words. I saw your excellent video after I stopped playing. I meant I am not sure if some of the proposed strategies are for maximising winning chance or winning with style points. Not just you but some other posters.

My confusion still stands about risk and reward.

Spoiler :

If we can get the Great Lighthouse, then the rest of the game becomes easier.

But the chance and cost of failure are high. I take high risks in difficult starts. This start does not seem difficult.

 

[soundjata]

I like my sugar with coffee and cream

Spoiler :

 

[Fippy]

Edit: You'll have to suffer my choice of game music lol.

Nice music..like watching Gladiator or Braveheart
Imo you took a fairly big risk by leaving the stone spot fogged for so long. Barb cities can plop really early on deity.