Noble's Club CXXXVIII: Isabella de España

[Noble Zarkon]

Can't use Buffy with this save?

I used BUFFY no problem.

Sent from my Android phone

 

[Pangaea]

Tried but got crushed by barbs due to the horrendously slow start this is. This is why I hate fishing starts. Workers gets out late, city 2 gets out late, warriors get out later, fogbusting is later, barbs pump up your behind much earlier.

Was tough to decide where to put city 2 as well...

Spoiler :

Copper for safety, or do I start blocking off land in the west? I chose copper, and then a barb razed the city one turn later. IT was an experiment to be fair, I wanted to see if the barb would pop out of the borders as they shouldn't be able to invade borders yet, like what happens with animals, but alas the city got romped. Maybe I'll try again later.

 

[Izuul]

About first 30 turns

Spoiler :

I grew to pop 2 after the first work boat. That way you can start the worker on clams+plains hill. We get a free hammer from that forested plains hill. The worker will be finished 1t before BW and can move to chop into work boat the next turn while the capital grows to size 3 on pigs.

I played a quick opening till 2800BC for comparison with yours and afaik it yields more food and hammers unless I'm missing something in your screenshot.

I got crushed by barbs on deity my first try (and Qin building the great wall didn't help). So on my second try I went for a funky opening with mining, hunting, ah, archery, wheel & BW. I only build one work boat to free up hammers for warriors/archer.

2800bc

Spoiler :

Good call on growth to size 2.

Spoiler :

I have a habit of momentarily forgetting I'm playing with expansive leaders. I went back and replayed the beginning and that was quite a bit stronger. WB finishes 1T faster, worked the gold 1T earlier, got 2nd city settled a little faster, etc. GLH was still about the same turn, but i also went Pottery earlier and had a granary in Madrid.

Unfortunately Kublai settled straight south with 2 cities this time and blocked all of the lake sites that could share clams. I'll play on from my original save regardless.

 

[Strickl3r]

Immortal 300 BC

Spoiler :

Started with a workboat just to test it.
Teched Mining->BW->TW->AG->AH-> Pottery-> Sailing-> Masonary -> Writing.

I finished GLH in 1000BC which is kind of bad, but i had at least 4 citys which blocked some spots.

I'm now just teching for a late Engeneering war to crush wonder whoring Qin, if he doesn't declare on me anyway before that.



I really have to complain, since this is nobles club i expect stone in the BFC with Izzy to build castles

 

[Pangaea]

As mentioned I don't like fishing starts, and I'm having problems deciding what to do here. How are you guys playing this?

(No major spoilers here, it's mostly questions about what to do next, at ~3000BC)

Spoiler :

I've done Mine-BW, starting with a workboat. Then grew to size 2 on another workboat and started worker at size 2, working the PH-forest. Moved the worker to chop into 2nd workboat, but am at a loss for next research.

1) Wheel-Pottery for Granaries and (poor non-riverside) cottages?
2) Sailing for GLH?
3) Farming-AH for more food, also for later cities?
4) X-Priesthood for Oracle?

Also struggling with 2nd city spots. In the first game I put it next to copper (where I did Farm-AH to feed that spot), but would it be better to move NW to block off Qin? I've scouted differently this time, already knowing the S and NW, so I moved him E-NE and noticed the location of Kublai is up there. I had a slight hope he was further west, meaning we had the east to ourselves if we could block off Qin.

 

[Strickl3r]

1)Because of the expansive trait and the fact that

Spoiler :

we need to hook up the copper anyway with a road

, i would go TW-> Pottery before Sailing here.
2nd city spot)

Spoiler :

2nd city spot should include the copper somehow for barb defense. I went coastal working just the copper for a while, because i wanted to build the GLH. The city was good for spamming warriors and workers with just that 6 yield tile already.

But I'm really not sure, if workboat first is the best option here although i did it myself. On immortal for example you can always build a warrior for a potential choke/worker steal and combine that with WB part build after the border pop working the pigs unimproved and start the Worker working Clam+Pigs unimproved at size 2 until slavery is available.
Or even without Warrior first working just the clams unimproved until the first border pop then pigs until size 2 then 2* clams unimproved gives a perfect timing for slavery and 30 hammers in the worker.

€: Of course the Warrior first has to do something mean to be worth it.

 

[cseanny]

First game in almost a year so Emperor/Standard/No Huts

SIP. Tech order:

Spoiler :

Mining/Hunting/AH/Archery/TW/BW/HBR/Alpha/trade for Pot/IW/AGR. I opted for AH upon seeing sheep and picked up Archery (higher military rating for peace and barbs + HA prereq) before TW . Upon seeing horses and owning 2 gold and several 2c ocean/oasis plots I knew I could power tech through HBR very quickly (HA rush).

Spoiler :

I went WB > worker at size 2, 3 warriors and an Archer while growing to size 5, at which point I started my 1st settler. I declared war on Toku in 3040 BC for a worker. I worked my luxuries and the pre-chopped waiting for HBR to finish at which piont I made 7 HAs (1 barracks/1stable) and re-declared in 1320 BC. Took 2 cities and 2 more workers while only losing 2 HAs. I'm pre-chopping forest while waiting for Math to finish and will be prioritize settling the rest of the land and moving my Capital.

 

[marasaidw]

Monarch Standard nhne

Well I redid the beginning. I'm willing to restart again

@cseanny I'd like to HA rush like you did maybe you could give me a couple pointers
I went BW before hunting will that mess things up? Which city had the barracks/stable? Which things did you chop early and which did you save for the HAs?

Spoiler :

I'm at 3040BC and out of position to worker steal from Qin. Is it still possible to do everything or should I restart and be sure to get the worker?

 

[Pangaea]

Had another go, but it didn't go great. Felt like GLH put me back a lot in expansion, so although I got it I'm not sure it's worth it.

800BC

Spoiler :

Got 3 cities, which is very little at this stage. Just got out another settler in Madrid and am building another one, but am not sure where to send him. Was thinking up north, but Kublai nicked a spot which messed up the plans a bit. Got the GLH which helps research and the economy, but expansion has been really bad.

Went Mine-BW-Wheel-Ag-Sailing-Pottery-Writing-AH-Masonry-Alpha. Then traded for IW-Hunting.

Spoiler :

Looking at cseanny's game, maybe that could be a way to go that would yield better results. You didn't go for either GLH or Oracle?

 

[cseanny]

@ Marasaidw

Spoiler :

Going BW first can be viable. Keep in mind by doing so you'll be delayed in hooking up horses. Yes, quicker chops but less ability to defend vs barbs. Capital had barracks/stable while my 2nd city had neither. Alternatively you could always do a 3 city HA rush and hook up the copper first (i opted for 2 cities and hook up 2nd gold quicker and use Archery). Either way i think its important to steal that early worker from Qin (Pigs around 3100-2900?). This speeds up your improvements/chops/ and slows him down from hooking up his military resource which ensures you'll be facing nothing but Archers, assuming you attack quickly.

@ Pangaea

Spoiler :

Nope, no GLH/Oracle. I opted to steal an early worker, slow down Qin and his military resource, and to hook up that 2nd gold asap to speed up research to HBR.

 

[Pangaea]

@cseanny

Spoiler :

I'm a bit intrigued about early micro as in both my games Qin placed city 2 1NW of horses, ruining the spot you chose. Is the worker steal enough to postpone his 2nd city so that you can grab it?

I went WB > worker at size 2, 3 warriors and an Archer while growing to size 5, at which point I started my 1st settler. I declared war on Toku in 3040 BC for a worker.

If I recall correctly from back when I was last active here, you seem to have a different approach than many others. It's therefore interesting to see how you have done things. Could you tell a bit more about early micro? How could you get out workboat(s), worker and then so many defenders before the first settler, and still claim that horse spot?

 

[byang08]

@cseanny

Spoiler :

I'm a bit intrigued about early micro as in both my games Qin placed city 2 1NW of horses, ruining the spot you chose. Is the worker steal enough to postpone his 2nd city so that you can grab it?


If I recall correctly from back when I was last active here, you seem to have a different approach than many others. It's therefore interesting to see how you have done things. Could you tell a bit more about early micro? How could you get out workboat(s), worker and then so many defenders before the first settler, and still claim that horse spot?

Spoiler :

Playing on EMP I was able to settle the horse by camping near Qin's pigs with my warrior. If you wait a turn too long, the worker will be protected by an archer. Qin won't attack you since his pig is on a hill. The worker steal itself is enough to delay his 2nd city in time for you to get yours no matter what opening.

I did 2H1F then 3H for WB, worker at 2 working clams and 3H, followed by another workboat, then whip settler at 4. Gonna try to HA rush like cseanny and see how it works out. This map would be difficult if we don't get the horses.

 

[byang08]

Spoiler :

I took Beijing at 1000 BC and I'm thinking of razing both Shanghai and Beijing and moving them 1E. Probably not worth it but gonna do it anyway.

 

[pomthom]

Spoiler :

I took Beijing at 1000 BC and I'm thinking of razing both Shanghai and Beijing and moving them 1E. Probably not worth it but gonna do it anyway.

Spoiler :

What city size are these?? You can sometimes consider razing 1 or 2 pop cities if the spot is really bad and/or you economy is starting to suffer from expansion but razing a 3+ city with improved tiles is really really really not worth your money (we're not talking of just losing the production for the Settlers you'll need to build, but sacrificing the actual population by razing will lose you a ton of and ).

Don't do it

 

[byang08]

Spoiler :

yea you're right lol, I kept both cities, going math/curr then back around to aesth/lit for GL. Not a lot of great city sites, securing the gem/marble all the way to the east is key.

Are the barbs on this map different? Never seen so many before.

 

[marasaidw]

Thanks @cseanny after work I'll restart again and try for that worker steal. I've never done one before, so it's high time i learned.

 

[byang08]

1080 Lib Emperor

Spoiler :

How should I proceed? Thinking of going conquistadors to kill off Mongols, then probably space. Getting PP with Lib though.

 

[pomthom]

[Map-host] About Barbs on this map:

Spoiler :

Many have pointed out Barbs were very active, but it is not due to settings.

I think this might have to do with the fact we have some jungle in the North, and some desert all around (I know barbs spawn more frequently in jungle, desert I'm not sure).

 

[elitetroops]

Looks like I won't have time to play this. At least not in the next few weeks. Might as well then look at other peoples saves.

@byang08:

Spoiler :

I think what your games needs the most is focus.

-Pick a goal for your game, focus on that (if your going cuir, don't take printing press from lib).
-Look at what each city is good at and focus on that (don't build unis in Murcia or Santiago, Shanghai on the other hand would really need one).
-You are Spiritual so use those civic changes to your advantage. First of all, you've been in OR for almost 1000 years but you never had a state religion. This means high upkeep but no production bonus! With a state religion that is spread to your core cities you can switch between OR for production periods, Theo&vassalage for military production and pacifism+CS for brief bursts of spewing out GP (usually during GA). Without a religion SPI loses much of it's value.

At the point of your save I would pick Nat from lib, trade for music, research gunpowder->MT. Build Taj Mahal in Barcelona, have it work all available mines at -1 food deficit, chop the last forest and you should get it up when you get reach MT. Then mass produce cuirs and run over the Khan. After that Shaka is so backwards that he should not be too hard, you only need a bunch of galleons to ship your cuirs. Then you don't know what awaits you, because you haven't even traded for a world map or explored to meet all the AI yet, but I would guess cuirs can get you pretty far. And get out of OR! Either free religion or pacifism+hinduism at this point of the game.

 

[pomthom]

I'm surprised that...

Spoiler :

...no one attempted a Worker steal? (EDIT: my bad, cseanny did )

Works well with WB > WB > Warrior > (chop) Settler (or something of the sort) along with Mining > BW followed by TW once you see the Copper (then Pottery/Sailing not necessarily in that order).

However, even though it worked successfully in my test at Deity, I stole from Kublai who seemed difficult to cease-fire...

@cseanny

Spoiler :

Why did you choose to go Archery before BW? Were you thinking HA from the start? It feels too conservative if it's just for Barb protection: since you're 2 techs away from AH and gotta start with Mining, might as well follow-up on BW for chops/whip and a potential Copper no?