Noble's Club CXXXVIII: Isabella de España

[Pangaea]

Spoiler :

Playing on EMP I was able to settle the horse by camping near Qin's pigs with my warrior. If you wait a turn too long, the worker will be protected by an archer. Qin won't attack you since his pig is on a hill. The worker steal itself is enough to delay his 2nd city in time for you to get yours no matter what opening.

I did 2H1F then 3H for WB, worker at 2 working clams and 3H, followed by another workboat, then whip settler at 4. Gonna try to HA rush like cseanny and see how it works out. This map would be difficult if we don't get the horses.

@byang08 (and cseanny)

Spoiler :

I went pretty much directly to his capital on the south side to reach pigs, and got there around 3400BC. Worker was already protected by archer, and was for quite some time. But eventually he was alone, improving copper IIRC. When the archer was more than 1 tile away (didn't want to lose him easily on flatland) I took the worker, declaring in 3000BC. Then parked said warrior on forested hill between copper and pigs. He grew somewhat old there.... It may of course have been a mistake to park him there and never settle for peace as he produced a fair few archers, but I didn't want to give him a chance to improve and hook up copper. In the meantime I teched up to Horse Archers and chop-whipped out as many as I could.

First took a southern city with a lone HA. Because he had 6 archers in his capital at this point, I swung around his backside and took Shangai next. After some healing 9-10 HA marched on Beijing, which was then defended by 'only' 5 archers. Thankfully none of his cities were on hills, so it went fairly well, and his capital fell without too much trouble too, albeit some HAs lost their lives. Thought it was fitting that GG William the Conqueror captured the city

As always the economy is now hosed, but I've gotten Alpha and have started on a probably slooooooow march towards Currency. Kublai was also settling nilly willy, so I whipped out two settlers and grabbed a city north and one east (1 turn before he would have gotten the riverspot). That Mongolian settler will probably grab sheep-iron in the east, or possibly move further north. Have to try to get the economy working now, as research is pretty slow. The war took a long time, but Qin was destroyed in 750BC. Have finally started working some scientists, so should get an Academy around 1AD.

Wanted Cordoba 1E, next to pig, but figured it was useless given Kublai is creative. re-settling on top of iron would block more, but then there is the fish in 2nd ring... Hopefully it will block well enough...

Spoiler :

Small note on micro: I was actually very slow to get out the 2nd workboat, because I was getting out some warriors instead for fogbusting, and didn't get out the settler until the city was size 5. This was certainly a different route for me. But probably due to the worker steal and choking, Qin still didn't claim the horse spot. I settled it in 2160BC.

As you can see from the overview shot, I've started on a palace in Beijing. I don't like non-rivered capitals at all, and think Beijing will be a much better Buro capital. Can put HE or NE in Madrid instead.

400BC now, do you have any suggestions?

 

[marasaidw]

@cseanny

Spoiler :

did you sign a peace treaty after the worker steal or stay in war?

 

[cseanny]

Til 1 AD:

Spoiler :

Just kept to the basics. Since I didn't have many trade partners I picked up Monarchy myself and then up towards Currency/CoL/CS/and now towards Lit. Plan will be upgrading HAs to Cuirs in the 700-900 range.

@ Pomthom:

Spoiler :

I supplied that info in my first post.

@ marasaidw:

Spoiler :

got peace after around 15 turns or so then redeclared for 2 more workers in 1360-1320?

 

[marasaidw]

Monarch to 1080BC

Spoiler :

Finished my HA rush of Qin. I DoWed on him twice once around the same as the other HA rushing players and then a second around 2400 to steal another worker. I think as a result Qin never got around to building a second city. So I only got Beijing and 3 workers from him (counting the 2 previous worker steals. Lost 2 of my 9 HA. Not sure what to do with the rest I guess I'll scout out the map for now.

screenshot

Spoiler :

Now I need to consider what to do next. I think the right call is to churn out some more cities to grab the remaining land and aim for currency.

Should I go for a wonder? I'm pretty sure Oracle is out since I'd need to tech to it. Would GLH be a possibility or perhaps GLib. I know I need to get a library up soon and start working on an academy. I'm thinking I should hold off on moving the capitol to Beijing since I'm going to be settling near Madrid and the distance penalties will add up.

Advice always appreciated.

 

[rey1103]

I'm going to play noble without huts. I'm a prince player, but I want a confortable game because this is the first time I play civ in a couple months.

To turn 40 (2400 BC):

Spoiler :

I was surprised when I saw the gold. Maybe I discovered El Dorado ?

I followed Izuus opening for a 9T workboat and then I put a worker. I renamed the warrior as "Cristóbal Colón" (Spanish for Christopher Columbus). This is the situation after the workboat was built.



I met Kublai Khan at the same time .

Yes, the captures are in Spanish, my first language, sorry.

I met the Chinese a bit later. He's very close .

Ok, Bronze Working is finished, and it revealed copper near the capitol . I switched to Slavery inmediately, of course.



I put TW, with a plan of Agriculture-Pottery-Sailing-AH.

After the worker was finished, I put him to chop the forest 1 SE and then mine the gold. I started a warrior.



After a while...



I chose agriculture, following the plan. The warrior was finished the same turn, and I put a workboat.

When it was finished, I put another warrior which will be followed by a settler.



I start working the gold.



The settler starts. I decided to choose AH instead of Sailing.



The empire if Isabel la Católica at turn 40 (AH will be finished next turn):

 

[byang08]

@elitetroops

Spoiler :

Looks like I won't have time to play this. At least not in the next few weeks. Might as well then look at other peoples saves.

@byang08:

Spoiler :

I think what your games needs the most is focus.

-Pick a goal for your game, focus on that (if your going cuir, don't take printing press from lib).
-Look at what each city is good at and focus on that (don't build unis in Murcia or Santiago, Shanghai on the other hand would really need one).
-You are Spiritual so use those civic changes to your advantage. First of all, you've been in OR for almost 1000 years but you never had a state religion. This means high upkeep but no production bonus! With a state religion that is spread to your core cities you can switch between OR for production periods, Theo&vassalage for military production and pacifism+CS for brief bursts of spewing out GP (usually during GA). Without a religion SPI loses much of it's value.

At the point of your save I would pick Nat from lib, trade for music, research gunpowder->MT. Build Taj Mahal in Barcelona, have it work all available mines at -1 food deficit, chop the last forest and you should get it up when you get reach MT. Then mass produce cuirs and run over the Khan. After that Shaka is so backwards that he should not be too hard, you only need a bunch of galleons to ship your cuirs. Then you don't know what awaits you, because you haven't even traded for a world map or explored to meet all the AI yet, but I would guess cuirs can get you pretty far. And get out of OR! Either free religion or pacifism+hinduism at this point of the game.

Thanks for looking at my save. I was building universities to get the required number for Oxford, but yea most of my cities are production focused with Madrid as the only GP farm, which is still on 2 scientists since I'm still in slavery. I was planning on running three consecutive golden ages with Taj and GPs. I'll try to replay the save from a couple of turns before Lib and see if I can get my stack out faster.

@Rainy Days

Spoiler :

You got Lib nearly 1000 years earlier than me playing on Deity vs. my Emp lol.

@Pangaea

Spoiler :

Your game looks good, I settled the gem/marble spot all the way to the east, which was reaching since I only got there one turn ahead of Shaka. I also put Barcelona 1N. Otherwise everything else is the same I think. I put NE in your Cordoba and HE in Madrid.

 

[Rainy Days]

Deity/normal 1760 Space

Spoiler :

The first try I got roflstomped by barbs and Qin with the great wall. I had 7 barbs (some upgraded) enter around turn 45, nothing much I could do.

So second try I played it safer with mining, hunting, ah, archery. Only building one work boat and putting more hammers in units. This time Kublai build the great wall so I had a lot of barbs coming my way again. First city went to the gold & sheep spot to the south. Third city went up at the flood plains, then it was off to grab the marble. Either Qin's or Kublai's.

I had some crazy good trade rng with aesthetics and alpha. Resulting in being able to trade maths/monarchy/lit for MC. Usually I have to tech MC myself near lib. So my early tech pace was pretty quick.

575BC, finished the great library in Madrid. 357BC I got 190 gold from fail/chopping the parthenon in multiple cities.

325BC I bulbed phil and switched to caste/pacifism.

1AD I grabbed the barb city on the south eastern island with some swords and founded another city there as well. Later I'll get a CRIII swordy from another barb city, unlocking HE. At this point I have education double bulbed and waiting for lib bulb. I'm trying to pull away from qin/kublai by not trading with them anymore. (For example I will trade CS for machinery with Peter)

Spoiler :

150AD Lib-Nationalism and start building Taj-m. After lib I'm focusing on getting GM's only throughout the game, accidental GS/GA will be used in golden ages.

680AD I wanted to slow down Willem some and dow Kublai. Bribed Qin and Shaka to attack willem and begged gold from Peter. Next turn Peter and Kublai get bribed into attacking Shaka and I bribe Peter into peace since I want shaka to do well and I'm about to dow Kublai with conquis.

700AD dow Kublai with 22 conquis.

800AD Win economics race/GM

960AD The Mongolian Civilization has been destroyed.

1000AD switch from FR back to theocracy to get Qin friendly cause no one wants to tech trade and I'm about to dow him next turn.

1070AD win communism race /GS

1160AD Wiped Qin and got biology

My empire consists mostly of farms and workshops so I prioritized any relevant techs chemistry (in trade), Sci method (trade), communism and bio. I will try to stay in caste as long as possible. Economy is a bit in the ditch but once I get wallstreet/Oxford up and cities can start to build wealth/research the economy will lift off like a rocket with this amount of land.

From here on it will be easy. Peter is friendly and Shaka/Willem are at pleased.

Spoiler :

In 50 turns we gained 3k beakers and cruising to victory. I have a GM waiting in moscow for gold.

Spoiler :

Eventually in 1760AD, we reach AC & I winz. Shaka managed to vassal ham/willem and peter even though he was way backwards, gg unit spam.

Madrid was NE/WS, Beijng Oxford and the triple seafood island had MS/IW. Didn't build NP/GT. edit: build the hermitage in Karakorum cause peter took the corn.

Spoiler :

 

[pomthom]

GG Rainy Days!

Hope you enjoyed the map

 

[byang08]

1911 emp domination

Spoiler :

around 1050 lib, went straight for curr rush after, took out mongols, waited a few turns and Shake declared on me before I could dow him. Took peace to regroup then kept warring till the end. I was on state property for most of late game, didn't try to cottage farms after emancipation. My micro is really bad so any help is appreciated. Thanks for the map.

 

[Pangaea]

@Pangaea

Spoiler :

Your game looks good, I settled the gem/marble spot all the way to the east, which was reaching since I only got there one turn ahead of Shaka. I also put Barcelona 1N. Otherwise everything else is the same I think. I put NE in your Cordoba and HE in Madrid.

@byang08

Spoiler :

Kublai already settled that spot during my war with Qin before I could get there, but I managed to get the marble in the south instead. Awkward city though. NE in Cordoba would have been good for me too, if not for Kublai 'stealing' that pig. With just one food and cultural pressure I didn't bother going there. Instead I put NE in Madrid and am actually considering putting HE in a new city I founded NE of corn, between Madrid and Beijing. Some greens I can farm, plenty of hills, and all those forests will chop out the HE in no-time.

580AD. A bit frustrated.

Spoiler :

Things were looking nice and I was backfilling my land. Then I saw with horror that Kublai had landed a settler! Damn him! Totally slipped my mind the AIs could do this. Sort of even more annoying because I had a settler on the way there, but missed the spot by a few turns. Had just switched to caste system to rush out a GS, so couldn't whip the settler in a closer city either. And to top off the great luck these last turns, the GS turned into a GA from 2-3% chance. Yay!

Spoiler :

Have two of those bastards now (1 from Music), so may as well just start a golden age, though I wanted Philo first for spamming some great people.

Kublai is teching pretty impressively and I can't seem to catch up, but the idea here is to get cuirs and crush him. Ever so tempting to reload but I'll keep going. Just frustrating when your plans turn to mush from some mistakes. Like buying Shaka off Peter with three techs, and then see the crazy fecker declare the next turn.... Utter waste of bargaining power that was Also lost two galleys to 33% odds, so it's been "one of those games". Had hoped to settle the island with them, but I suppose Kublai may snag those spots too now.

Research at least is mostly looking good though, so if I can stay out of a real war until Cuirs (had a fake with Shaka) it should be possible to win here.

 

[rey1103]

Part 1:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12983030&postcount=45

To 550 B.C:

Spoiler :

I've followed this tech path:

AH-Masonry-Writing-Alpha-Maths-Currency

After Alpha I could get Hunting, Archery and Iron Working trading.

I've focused in economy and I currently have four cities, locking Qui Shi. My plan for the near future is to try a Sword/Axe rush, or at least get a city or two. I'm also researching Code of Laws, because nobody of my neighbours has a religion.

I could build The Great Lighthouse, so I I'm getting quite commerce from trade routes.

Some screenshots:









I've also attached the save if someone wants to take a look.

 

[marasaidw]

Looking for thoughts on my next few turns

Spoiler :

Just finished alpha I figure I'll backfill as much as I can with a priority on pottery. Tech math>currency.

Spoiler :

So i'm thinking next two settlers are 1NW of clams north of Madrid and 1NW of eastern clams. My thought is that I need to try to cut off Kubali as much as possible. In that regards which spot do I settle first? Later I can dotmap for backfill. I will be sure to look at where other people settled as well.
I was also thinking of running two scientists in Beijing to get an academy.

Thanks!

 

[marasaidw]

1AD update

Feels strange because I've built zero wonders so far, but I still feel in a strong position. It has me nervous though.

Spoiler :

Well I'm still expanding to fill in my territory. I've grabbed some good sites along Kubulai's border and gotten some culture up there. However, I haven't built any wonders yet. I'm aiming for GLib. Should I build it in Madrird which I plan to make my NE city, or Beijing which will become my beaurcap?

 

[Pangaea]

@marasaidw

Spoiler :

1AD update

Feels strange because I've built zero wonders so far, but I still feel in a strong position. It has me nervous though.

Spoiler :

Well I'm still expanding to fill in my territory. I've grabbed some good sites along Kubulai's border and gotten some culture up there. However, I haven't built any wonders yet. I'm aiming for GLib. Should I build it in Madrird which I plan to make my NE city, or Beijing which will become my beaurcap?

I'd build the GLib in Madrid. There is piles of food there, plus decent production, so it can become a pretty fine NE site. Beijing becomes a really good capital with all those nice cottage sites. It's a much, much better capital than Madrid.

 

[Pangaea]

Update from my game, 1340AD.

Spoiler :

Got an unlucky Great Artist in addition to the Music one, so started a Golden Age. With chopping, the HE was finished in one turn in 780AD.

Spoiler :

Must say I'm quite pleased at how this seemingly oddball location city has turned out. It won't grow big, but all those hills get it good production, and it will help a great deal more once I get State Property (if the game goes on that long). A downside is lack of a river and therefore Levee goodiness.

Won Lib in 1110AD (is this late? I had not yet met Willem so had no idea where he was tech-wise). Took Military Tradition. Turned off research since I once again was unlucky and lost a GM with 63% chance. Then it was whipping and HA upgrading time. I've not gone full out on this process before, so it was quite fun. Only cities not whipped were capital, HE and NE cities.

Spoiler :

Not as hard as some perhaps, and I kept whipping, but it was good fun. As you can see I waged war in a GA (from Taj). Already had 4 GP stored, so no point blowing out more of them.

I postponed taking Kublai's capital Karakorum for a turn because he just got a GG there, and I hoped he would settle him. But instead the last Keshik with 1.7 had a very short GG life.

Spoiler :

At exactly the same time my caravel found the unsettled island off Hammurabi's coast. But unfortunately he managed to settle it just when I got there, and of course I don't have Astronomy yet, so the whole thing is probably lost. Not a great thing as Hammurabi is without doubt the strongest remaining AI now, with research miles better than me (demographics).

Spoiler :

At the end of the war War Weariness was utterly bonkers, despite Kublai *not* owning the Bastard of Zeus.

Spoiler :

Thankfully I had the foresight to 1-turn a Theatre on the turn before the war in capital Beijing, because it was at breaking point happiness-wise already pre-war. Had to run at 30% for most of the war.

Cuirs wars are fun, and Conquistadors even more so, when up against old units. Since I killed both his iron supplies, he only had longbows and some melee units. Nom-nom-nom
These wars are so fast, the first captured cities are barely out of resistance when the last ones fall. I declared in 1230AD, and he was dead in 1340AD, having taken 12 cities.

Spoiler :

This game should be under control now, but there is a slight uncertainty about Hammurabi still, as he has a ton of culture and is researching viciously fast. He already has SciMeth and Communism. I'm thinking of taking out Peter and Shaka, but maybe I'll just go for Hammy instead. Shaka is crushing Peter and will surely cap him soon. I could buy him off, but I did that earlier and Shaka the nutter re-declared on the very next turn.... He has declared on him 4 times so far...

Nobody have gunpowder yet, so I should have a decent window still until Rifles, so will most likely power to Astronomy soon, whip out some Galleons, and hurry them across the strait for some more Conquistador Have 40+ left...

One issue is that Hammy didn't have iron until he captured that damn barb city on the island, and he now has access to cannons...

 

[Pangaea]

Small update, 1460AD. What do you think?

Spoiler :

I've gotten out some Galleons, planning to DoW Hammurabi since he is the strongest remaining AI. He doesn't have Steel like I said earlier (mistake on my part), but he has gotten both Physics and Communism by now, and only lack MT for his own Cuirs. I'll get Rifling next turn though, so can upgrade some Conquistadors to Cavalry.

Shaka started plotting a few turns ago, and I'm his worst enemy. Do you think he is plotting on me (across sea) or Hammurabi (land)?

He does have this decent-looking stack, but I'm not sure where it's going yet as I just noticed it.

Spoiler :

What would you do in my shoes?

I'm a little surprised by the amount of money the Great Merchant got. He would have gotten 2100 in the city with Artemis, but got 2300 in a coastal city that happened to have the Colossus. Both are obsolete by now, I think.

 

[Pangaea]

No takers?

With power back in this lousy joint (seriously, have all landlords descended from Satan's little helper to the title of landlord?), I'll hopefully be able to continue the game today.

 

[elitetroops]

@Pangaea:

Spoiler :

Shaka doesn't have a single galleon/galley as far as I can see, so I wouldn't worry about him coming your way. I'd wait for him to send his stack to Babylonia, then when he has made his first attack and injured his units attack from behind. It will take forever for him to get his units back to counter. It would be nice to have a spy over there to track his stack movements once the war starts though. Physics for airships would also serve the same purpose.

He's so far behind that he will only serve to give your army more promotions on their way to Hammy. I think this should be a faster way to victory than going for Hammy first, but obviously you can and will win the game either way. Not much you could do to lose this anymore. Congrats!

 

[Pangaea]

@elitetroops

@Pangaea:

Spoiler :

Shaka doesn't have a single galleon/galley as far as I can see, so I wouldn't worry about him coming your way. I'd wait for him to send his stack to Babylonia, then when he has made his first attack and injured his units attack from behind. It will take forever for him to get his units back to counter. It would be nice to have a spy over there to track his stack movements once the war starts though. Physics for airships would also serve the same purpose.

He's so far behind that he will only serve to give your army more promotions on their way to Hammy. I think this should be a faster way to victory than going for Hammy first, but obviously you can and will win the game either way. Not much you could do to lose this anymore. Congrats!

Spoiler :

Thanks for checking out my game.

I've played on a few turns, and started whipping a bit more, but more importantly, it looks like Shaka is intending to march all the way over to Willem instead. That will take a quite, and I'd rather attack now given I have at least 30 Conqs and Cavs on the continent. I do quite like your idea of stabbing Shaka when his units are elsewhere though, so perhaps I may just postpone the attack some more turns and see what he is truly up to. His 41-unit stack just moved into Babylonian lands without declaring. Will see if I can get a spy over there to track it better.

The game should be won as you said, but I'm trying to improve the end game as well. Tricky to know exactly what to do in these situations. Take on the most advanced AI first, or the least? And so forth.

 

[elitetroops]

@Pangaea:

Spoiler :

Heh, well at least you wouldn't be disturbed by Shaka's stack for a while if he gets all the way over there. Perhaps you could even pull some crazy move here and allow him to DoW Willem first, then as soon as he has taken one city from him bribe Hammy to stop trading with Shaka, which should close their borders and leave his army trapped on the other side.

But yeah, with the army ready like you have here, I would probably not wait too long to attack someone. In general when I reach the point of the game you are at now I just take down the opponents in order, starting from the closest. There's really no opponent in the game that could put up a decent fight, or potentially become too dangerous if you don't deal with them asap, so all that matters is how soon you can reach the domination limit. Although Shaka is closest, it might be that Hammy and Willem would cap sooner, which perhaps could mean a quicker domination victory if their lands are enough for the win.