Noble's Club XIII - Alexander of Greece

[TheMeInTeam]

@ vicawoo New to the community and as an "iffy" Noble player your comment seemed a non-sequitur as surely I will learn from engaging with more experienced players. As proof, I would have opened differently if I'd seen your pre-start analysis before finishing my first round.

1000 BC debriefing

The bronze working, three scout strategy wasn't too bad.

Spoiler :

The hut people were big on maps and experience but did give over Sailing and a total of 126 Gold which given my wastrel ways is useful. The tech path later continued: wheel, animal husbandry, agriculture, mysticism (for monuments), archery (as a result of the 2280 BC shock), iron working (jungle clearing), pottery, meditation (the Oracle?)
Sparta was founded in 2000 BC one S of the local ivory supply. In order Alexander met Hammurabi (hence the location of Sparta), Mao Zedong and Churchill and there is some unexplored (only one scout left) land to the east. The great barbarian uprising of 2280 BC found Greece with but two warriors. Fortunately, the four archers decided on a tour of London in one of the few games when I do not build the Great Wall.
So, now, Greece has a decent army but is 15 turns from building the copper city. Next up? A blended policy - a whack of workers, barbarian fighting phalanx boyos and a blocker city in the NE.

Question.

Spoiler :

If Greece does not prioritize bronze working does it waste its unique unit?

Spoiler :

No, you always play the map. If the UU would be useful you use it, but don't force use things that don't benefit you more than other options.

For example, axe rushing hammy is a very bad idea, and there's nothing about the phalanx that changes that.

That said, you usually don't want to delay BW too long in ANY game. It lets you chop, speeding up expansion. It enables slavery, which often makes production more efficient, especially in new cities. While axes aren't great vs bowmen, they ARE great vs barbs so having axes if possible vs barbs is quite nice. Don't worry about "wasting" UUs and UBs though, just use them if they're useful

 

[pigswill]

1375bc already.

Spoiler :

Met Hammy, Ch'ill and Mao. Got some copper and a few phalanxes. Only three cities. Oracle-CS slingshot . Confucius say: "Sparta ain't much but its home to me". Got the axe handles random event, phalanxes with C1 and Shock. Very nice for bashing barbie dolls. Also had locusts and prairie dogs. Lively stuff indeed.
Time to rex. Build workers, settlers and phalanxes. Grab that land. What next for techs? Need alphabet for trading, currency for trade routes, IW for clearing the jungle, calendar for them resources buried in the jungle. So little time, so much to do.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Emp/Quick to 1860 AD.

Ugh, quick . It's an interesting speed that adds some difficulty. It greatly favors defensive wars and peace games. War, on the other hand, is a lot harder! I recommend epic to aspiring warmongers out there!

Spoiler :

"30 turns isn't that fast" I've heard. The same as 45 on normal or around 60 on epic roughly right?

Argument would be valid IF IF IF my units moved faster by that much. They don't. Which means the AI can use quick speed production relative to units to pack MORE units than on slower speeds, with LESS RELATIVE time to do it.

This matters since it makes earlier, especially medieval, wars almost impossible. It makes later wars harder too because you face more units, but it's still cavalry vs longbows! Onward:

When we left off I'd just wiped China off the map. I'd seriously considered teching to assembly line to go after hammy with mass drafted infantry (With the empire size I had and the globe city, the damage drafting 3 units per turn would do to my economy would be comically small). However, I decided I wanted a commanding lead as soon as possible, milking the fact that Hammy still lacked rifling. I wasn't expecting such a lead to last long for me, but if I could at least eliminate his field SoD...

When I declared in 1750 he took one of my weakly garrisoned chinese cities, which I took back. I then used a spy/cavalry/rifle combo to take a couple cities ASAP. This damage cut him hard. He never teched rifling, and I completely conquered his mainland continental cities, taking capitulation and the rest of assembly line for peace. His lands:



Yes, this war lasted 1750 to 1860. Again, times are skewed on quick, which you'll see in the techs:



The effects of starting bonuses not being there for emperor AIs should be far eroded by now. However, while I was complaining before about the AIs running away on quick, it looks like that's not necessarily the case . It was pretty much just Churchill doing it, he was probably abusing massive amounts of intercontinental trade, relative peace, and the fact that I'd brokered techs with him earlier to vault his way forward.

That said, wow. 1860 and everyone's just getting infantry other than 1 person. I have to change my plans here. Seeing mansa in the fog after a map trade, I assumed him to be teching well and that he'd go culture/grab UN (my empire plus hammy vassal + churchill's friendly vote would have equaled a win). Unfortunately, mansa is backwards. I don't think I can get the UN before churchill since he's a tech away. The internet is also kind of useless here - there will only be 1 AI with anything meaningful.

This means I'll be wanting tanks and some kind of bombardment unit to put churchill down. His cities are scattered and there's no way he can hold off spam from 3 empires worth of cities. Tech rate went up really quick after the war ended too! (I'd started building infrastructure when I realized I had enough troops to finish the job quickly).

Putting Churchill down means I can take my pick of victories after that, and I'll probably go for domination.

 

[biggp07]

Hey all, New too the community only a few days but have lurked for a long time. I thought I would finally give one of these community games a go, so I picked NC. Its the closest to where i think I am and also to provide a challenge which won't feel insignificant. I've tried to beat this level and have not been successful...close but never a victory. I'll probably play on noble, normal or epic speed. Don't want to start off too fast but I'd like to tear something up! I'll apologize up front for any noob questions that have obvious answers. I've not played Alex yet so this should be fun!

 

[cripp7]

As a not-yet-Noble player, I really appreciate the comments of the more experienced players.

I usually go Noble/epic and restart (or at least back up many turns) a lot. This time I think I'll go Noble/normal and fiercly resist the restart mania, hoping to actually finish the game. I suppose that means the Phalanx won't be useful for as long but I only warmonger a little in most games.

Actually I was always an Epic player, I'm still Noble/Prince, but was still having probs until I went marathon and game became much easier. Now I'm able to go Epic easier. Try marathon for awhile.
cripp

 

[dalamb]

... but was still having probs until I went marathon and game became much easier. Now I'm able to go Epic easier. Try marathon for awhile.

Things seem to be going easier for me on Normal at the moment. I think my "probs" are different from yours -- sticking with a game that lasted so long seems to have been very difficult.

Noble, normal, 4000 BC - 580 AD

Spoiler :

I decided early on to aim to take out my nearest neighbour, which turned out to be Hammurabi. I don't quite recall the full tech path, but it started agr > AH > mining > bronze > wheel > pott >writing (conventional!) I decided to settle Sparta southwest; perhaps requiring an expansion for the bronze slowed me down a lot, but I figured I needed eventually to work the cows once either Sparta or Athens expanded. Corinth went east near the second gold. Had I teched Mysticism early and gone for a monument in Sparta instead of waiting for a library, maybe I could have attacked earlier with phalanxes.

I took over a nearby barbarian city to the south; maybe I should have razed it, since it required another slow expansion before getting to the wheat and cows.

In any case, at the moment I'm in mid-war with Hammurabi, currently a couple of turns into a 10-turn peace treaty. I'm currently consolidating by building courthouses (gold-per-turn goes positive at 40%) but I'm having second thoughts and wondering if I should dedicate Athens, Sparta, and Corith (the main production cities, currently with maintenande -2.4, -3.32, and -3.61 respectively) to more soldiers and defer their courthouses until after I wipe out the Babylonians. I think the other cities need their infrastructure, though.

 

[GGS]

500 AD debriefing

The fundamentals are sound, but the Greeks are a tad uncomfortable.

Spoiler :

The copper city was founded, the phalanxes and workers commissioned and deployed but the NE iron/marble blocker city was delayed (the Babylonians got the iron) in favour of the Statue of Zeus. Well, the Greeks will go to war at some point, the marble/silk city is available in two turns and there is iron in the west.
Next possible error-in-waiting? The Shwendagen Paya as none of the locals have aesthetics and Great People can be useful.
On the bright side Alexander has a tech lead on the two closest neighbours, only Churchill has a better army, construstion is but eight turns away and there are two barbarian cities in the NE available by force of arms.
The plan? Economically sustainable expansion while building a field army capable of taking Hammurabi's HQ.

 

[Single Malt]

Here is my first start at a prince game, to 40AD, marathon, choose religions enabled.

Spoiler :

I played a peaceful start, as a rush was out of the question. I REXed heavily. Settles Sparta first, then into the jungle to set up the blocking cities and claim all the goodness that will be available post IW and Calendar. I went as far as the gems/rice/bananas, and with IW I settled by the northern iron/cows/marble. Hammy was pretty boxed in at this stage, which reflects on his score. I backfilled one city, and and captured a barb city in that was placed in one of my backfill sites. My tech rate has all but stalled, but is slowly getting back together, as cottages are getting worked. I was running at 6 at one stage. Courthouses are next on the menu - whipped of course. I'm thinking as a tech path when CoL finishes will be Calendar, MC, monarchy, and then head for the Great Lib enabling tech, since I have marble.

few pics

My cities


The graphs


The tech situation

I have techs they want, but they have nothing to offer me.

Not looking too bad for my first prince game. I need to slow down my military production, as I don't intend to attack till I have maces online. Plans may change, and I do have a numerous army, so I am not expecting a DoW

 

[pigswill]

Noble Epic of Alexander. 1ad.

Spoiler :

Making some progress. Started by getting 7 goody huts (160 gold, AH, some xp, a scout and a warrior) and I was able to explore fairly early on. Looking at the size of the island, the big chunk of jungle in the middle and the protective (but not overtly psychopathic) AIs I decided against an early rush.
I built Oracle in Sparta thinking that if I founded confu by getting CoL (which seemed pretty likely) this would put all my great prophet points in one city. I quickly chopped a library in Athens and ran a couple of scientists which got me a GS just in time to bulb mathematics; it went something like GS (maths) 1525bc, CoL 1450bc (for confu) and Oracle 1375bc for CS.
Interestingly enough none of the early religions got founded in our continent so confu had a monopoly. I built a couple of missionaries to spread the word and by a bit of luck everyone had gone confucian by 5ad so everyone at the moment is pleased with each other.
I built a temple in Sparta to run a priest to speed up the prophet and finally got Kong Miao established in 35bc. I somehow managed to get another GS in the middle (poor planning there) which founded an academy in Athens.
I built a few cities more or less at random and picked up a corner of the continent:





The research situation is going ok, pulling in about 100 beakers/turn (academy and buro capital does kind of help).





Demographically its going ok. Bit low on troops but not too low to worry just yet (though I'd better not neglect military completely).



So far I've managed to avoid the evils of slavery and my citizens remain unwhipped.

Research has been a bit unfocussed. I've managed to nab theology for Christinaity. I might built AP in Sparta for denial purposes (and the bonus hammers will help). I think I'll try to get more focussed from now on and pursue an ambitious lib/steel slingshot. Don't know if I'll get it but its worth a try. Early(ish) cannon against longbows and muskets should prove a distinct advantage.

 

[cripp7]

Noble/Marathon 4000-395BC

Spoiler :

i decided to try this out. my noble skills are going to give a try. Settle in place. Scouting revealed Baby to my east, no need for him to expand so my plan was to take him out early. further exploring found Chinese to the south and English to SE. Once I found copper I settled 1E and start building warriors until Phalanxs' come online, having a barracks in the capital helps. built 7 warriors & 3 Phals and took out Baby. Babylon is my NP city. Sparta (copper city) whips monument, barracks, starts Phals. I took 6 3xp warriors/3Phals/spear to Babylon which I'm going to use as my NP. I took 2 cities from Baby. I researched Mono hope to grag Judaism but missed it by 3 turns, grabbed the Oracle and took CoL to found Conf in Sparta. Then I settled 1 more city, took a barb city and began infrastructure. I started spamming missionaries to every city on continent. China is Conf, Churchill found Budda so I'm Budda to buddy with him. My research is 30% +2/turn. I'm going Phals/Elephant/Horse to take on China, or should I wait for cats and go for Churchill. Here's the techpath. Please tell me if it looks ok so far I'm trying new technics.

Tech path Ag>Mining>BW>AH>Myst>Wheel>Masonry>Writing>Pottery>Math>Poly>Mono(missed Judism by 3 turns)>Priesthood>CoL(Confucianism in Sparta)>Monarchy>HBR>Metal Casting>started Curreny

 

[Krick19]

Ugh, I'm hanging on Prince for this baby. Not comfortable yet on monarch.

 

[MkLh]

I gived this a try on marathon/monarch.

Initial thoughts:

Spoiler :

Alexander's traits and UU suggest early war, and marathon is the only speed where b.c. war makes some sense IMO. If I'm blocked, i try an early rush with phalanx's. Otherwise I try expand peacefully in 5-6 cities and then attack with catapults. Alexander's philosophical trait helps getting construction early, since a great scientist can pulp mathematics.

From 4000 bc - to 1330 bc.

Spoiler :

4000 bc. Gold, corn and cows. Settled on place. Started worker and agriculture.

3715 bc. I was lucky and picked Animal Husbandry from a hut. However, in the next round lions eated my scout. Not much scouting done yet.

To 3100 bc. After agriculture, I go for mining and bronze. I have meet Churchill's, Mao's and Hammurabi's scouts. Finally find Hammurabi. He is very close, but has his bowmans and there seems to bee enough space for now, so I forget the phalanx-rush.

View attachment 190573

to 2620 bc. Bronze appears on south. Started the wheel. Athens hits size 4. Start to chop settler. Stupid random event destroys my pasture. Finally Sparta is founded. Started to chop another settler.

View attachment 190574

Around 2300 bc. Corinth is founded in north. Wheat, cows, hills and some calendar stuff. Finished pottery and started writing.

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2010 bc. Library is chopped/whipped in Athens. As Athens hits size 4 again, 2 science specialist are in to create GS. Bronze is also connected. Started mystisism, i'm going for oracle.

Around 1600 bc. Great Scientist borns and priesthood is finished. Pulped mathematics and started to chop the Oracle.

View attachment 190576

1530 bc. Masonry is teched and the Oracle is build. I take construction from it.

View attachment 190577

1490 BC. I'm the most advanced and the most powerful in this continent but have still only 3 cities, which hardly is quite enough for building decent catapults-stack. Started settler after Athens reaches it's happy cap.

View attachment 190579

However, i have totally forget scouting. I was wondering Hammurabi's very low power level and just now bother to take a look at his empire. Really weird! His capital is guarded by only two warriors. He hasn't neither bronze working or archery yet. Feels almost like a bug. I don't remember i've seen anything like this even on Warlords level. Was his settler killer by the barbs or is he just focusing to spreading his two founded religions? confused:

Whatever. I took advance of it. I attacked with 4 phalanx's and keep both of his cities, cause both are holy cities and not so bad placed.

View attachment 190580
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So my empire at 1340 bc:

View attachment 190582
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[TheMeInTeam]

As a note, because I used a noble save for this, higher level AIs won't start with the right techs, so their bonus units will be warriors. They still tech faster and whatnot, but they're gimped early relative to a normal monarch+ game. I didn't bother making a monarch+ save (IIRC no NC game has) because although the series is open to all, it IS the NOBLE's club . Of course, if you know to edit the scenario file it's possible to change that (or do weird things like make your civilization color BLACK, for example)...I just didn't bother because of the series' intent. Cleaning starting units and handing the AIs archery should do the trick.

 

[Groogaroo]

Okay... Totally didn't notice that a new Nobles Club had started, I'll be giving this a whirl on Monarch/Epic.

 

[MkLh]

1300 bc-80bc

Spoiler :

1180 bc: The Pyramids were built and Mao changed to representation, making oblivious target.. Teched Iron Working and started Currency.

Mao was weak so I eventually decided to attack without swordsmen in 780bc. Economy was in so bad shape that i had leave 3 phalanx of from my initial stack because I just couldn't pay the supply. And the currency was still light years away... It was a mistake to found 6th city to hook iron.

View attachment 190604
View attachment 190605

Mao was so weak that even my tiny stack was almost overpowered.

View attachment 190606

After capturing Beijing and the Pyramids, I immediately changed to representation for happyness and science bonus. This helped and Currency became reachable. I razed Shangai and Guangzhou, losing only couple of catapults.

Beijing is in terribly location very far away from my empire. I let Mao keep couple of his cities because England was taking all the land there anyway and i don't want that the pyramids city will revolt and join to England.

View attachment 190607

Razed Mao's jewel/bananas-city closer to my empire and took my settler and founded city in better location there, and then took peace. I took also 2 barb cities in decent locations before Churchill will take them. After I got currency and a hindu-shrine, my economy could just support all 10 cities without need to build wealth. Studied code of laws and sailing and started calendar. Churchill has converted to Confucianism and is now annoyed to me, so no tech trading options.

No I wonder if I should attack Churchill now (then I must build wealth in some cities), or wait at least until courthouses are whipped (in which case Churchill may have time to get feudalism, which pretty much obsoletes catapults and swords.)

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[Groogaroo]

Thanks for putting the game up TMIT I actually like playing Monarch Lite as I'm still having a tough time battling with normal Maonarch. Its a nice inbetween level.

Report - Monarch/Epic - 2425 BC (incl dotmap)

Spoiler :

Decided to settle one south.

Opening tech path went...
Aggriculture > Mining > Archery > Animal Husbandry > Bronze > Mysticism > Wheel(Just started)

Build in the Capital was...
Worker > Warrior > Archer > Archer > Settler

I didn't have too much luck with huts, popping a 2nd scout on my first hut let me get a good amount of exploration in before they ended up as Lion food! Got 55 gold from another.

Met both Mao & Hammy.

I would have liked to run a SE with alex but this land is looking more like Cottages to me, so maybe a hybrid then?


Dotmap

This is my early plan for expansion, just finished a settler whose ready to go, sites are numbered in order of settling.



Plan is to try and cut off hammy from settling to the northwest and southwest to allow me to grab as much land as possible. With Hammy's Bowman a rush isn't really on the cards and Mao is too far away so its peaceful rex time!

 

[pigswill]

The Noble Epic of Alexander II.

Decided to restart with a slightly different approach:

Spoiler :

The direct one. Built Sparta for copper then built and chopped 29 phalanxes in a row from two cities. Lost 9 of them. Killed 6 warriors, 10 archers, 2 bowmen, 5 chariots, 3 axes and 2 swords (I counted ). Babylon destroyed 1275bc. China destroyed 725bc. England destroyed 365bc. I have six cities and a large continent to myself. Looking good .

 

[cripp7]

The Noble Epic of Alexander II.

Decided to restart with a slightly different approach:

Spoiler :

The direct one. Built Sparta for copper then built and chopped 29 phalanxes in a row from two cities. Lost 9 of them. Killed 6 warriors, 10 archers, 2 bowmen, 5 chariots, 3 axes and 2 swords (I counted ). Babylon destroyed 1275bc. China destroyed 725bc. England destroyed 365bc. I have six cities and a large continent to myself. Looking good .

Spoiler :

Great way to it! I think I'll try a test run at that!

 

[pigswill]

@cripp7.

Spoiler :

The approach definitely needs refinement. Been playing on from it, got up to about 700ad and 25% land but the economy is a real pita. It would have been better to build the great wall at a fairly early stage before going on a rampage. Also keeping every city instead of razing them is very good because it gives you a stronger base to rebuild from. In terms of techs you need CoL for caste system, currency to build wealth (if you've got CoL to run merchants and maths you can bulb currency with a GM so its not such a research priority), iron working and calendar for all the jungle resources. Building the great wall will only cost half a dozen or so phalanxes which you won't really need anyway. It should be possible to occupy the continent before 1000ad that way.

 

[MkLh]

From 80 AD to 1929 (end)

Spoiler :

I decided to attack Churchill despite that I had almost too many cities already. Churchill was studying construction and I wanted to attack before he could build effective counterstacks. Main goal of the war was to get space and more secured position for Beijing, which was a great production city, and to take Canterbury, a good floodplains city.

View attachment 190741

410: war finally over. Five new cities and Beijing now connected to my empire.

View attachment 190742

885: gained optics and met Ragnar. Soon I met Mansa, who was vassalized by Ragnar. France was destroyed by barbs in very early game. Teched banking and changed to Merchantilism for free specialists.

1452: Ragnar was quite backwards in their sneaky continent, so I delayed liberalism and take Biology.

View attachment 190731

In late 1500's Ragnar attacked, but caused not much harm. 1632 Churchill and Mao attacked. Eventually I took almost all Churchill's cities. Teched Communism and changed to state property. Building the Statue of Liberty compensated free specialists from Merchantilism.

View attachment 190732
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1800's: Started to go for Space Race. One more was against Churchill to take away an annoying culture city. A funny thing happened (see red text ).

View attachment 190735

1847: Ragnar declared second time. His land stack died quickly, but he had a stronger navy and he destroyed most of my fishing boats before peace. Gained my first Great Engineer, changed to Fee Market and found Sid's Sushi and Mining.

View attachment 190737

1910: Spaceship was launched.
1926: Ragnar started his final war bit too late...

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Siome conclusions: There are so many benefits for having a big empire. For example, Mining Inc. gave me juicy 16 hammers before any trades. Lacking archery slows monarch-AI:s surprisingly lot in early stages. Marathon is an easy speed to play, but gets quite boring from time to time.