This is the discussion to determine how the government (elected officials, deputies, governors) should look like. We can continue with prior demogame set ups, or a new one like ones being discussed already.
Black_Hole said:shouldnt some of these"OFFICIAL DISCUSSIONS" wait until after we decide on a variant?(especially this one)
sorry I misspoke, I meant alternate government....Chieftess said:Then why did we bother with the other government structure discussion then? We already had a "standard or variant" poll, and a standard game was the winner. No need to drag things out over 3, 4, 5 etc. polls.
CivGeneral said:We should keep the same government structure we have. I quote an old saying, "If it aint broke, dont fix it"
if you wish for info read the 5 pages of discussionCivGeneral said:No alternative Government. I am still set against it since it would create more beurocracy as Mr. Strider has placed forward in other related threads.
Tell me in an essay form why the alternative government is good and maybe I would support it and not be driven away. (Yes I said an 1-2 page essay ).
DaveShack said:I beg to differ, it is broken.
- DG5 had lots of comments about the leaders being nothing more than glorified polling secretaries.
- Leading to: a high percentage of uncontested elections. I don't have time to spend on calculating it, but there were a lot.
- Lots of places where a true strategic plan would have made all the difference.
- Everytime two leaders disagree over how a decision should be made, we get a JR and sometimes days or even weeks of discussion. Let's just have the President be the decider.
- Culture has absolutely no power without the Governors.
- Science polling tech by tech instead of a strategy
- We need offices that people without conquests can hold, or about 4-6 of our most active citizens will get forced out.
How much wood would a Leader swing if a Leader could swing wood? Gee I don't know, but should we be restricting this? Do we want to blindly curtail a Leader's potential?blackheart said:Here's the fundamental question: How much power and what scope of power should elected officials have?
Some people view officials as poll pals, others expect them to be autonomous and only present decisive polls, and if either group are please, then a CC or hatnot comes up.
Yes, we all know what a meaningless position President is.Strider said:Coming from some person who was almost never seen in DG5, sorry if I I don't take you that seriously.
The first three are easily fixed, give the leaders more power to decide on which way the country should head. This gives people a reason to want to run, helps remove uncontested elections, and should result in less polling, and as a result more strategic planning.
Throughout this entire game, heck, throughout any of the games, we have never had a problem with two leaders disagreeing over an issue. How that is a problem I have no idea.
Culture may not have any power, so why don't we give them some? Not much harder than that, allow culture to put cultural buildings inside of a govonors queue, or if your not willing to do that much, atleast allow them to insert wonders/small wonders inside of a govonors queue.
As for science polling tech by tech, that was mainly the elected official at that time, when Classical_hero and I took over we started creating the queues etc. for science. That's not a problem with the department, that's a problem with the elected official.
Ashburnham said:So, you are in fact agreeing that we should change the government. If we're all in agreement that that should happen, I'm not sure why you're so antagonistic towards change.
Ashburnham said:I believe we had this conversation several times over the course of DG5. The simple fact is that building queues are solely the territory of the Governors. It's been that way every Demogame, and it should continue to be that way. However, the powerlessness of Culture can be solved without taking power away from the Governers by instituting "Planning" positions that chart where the nation should go. The Culture Planner would be in charge of deciding what Wonders to build and what level of Cultural advancement to set; the Governors would then be tasked with implementing those plans.
Ashburnham said:True, but what's wrong with instituting policy that works? If Ministries work better when long-term planning is used, why shouldn't we make it a part of running the office?
Again, I'm forced to conclude that your adherence to the traditional system of government is due to a fear of change and nostaglia to the past Demogames rather than logic.
Strider said:"Also, may I try to clarify something? I am in no way close minded to a new concept, as long as it continues to stay with the old layout. It is a changing of the layout I am against, for reasons I have said already."
blackheart said:Strider, what you're saying makes sense, but appears to be contradictory. You'll accept new things but as long as they remain on par with the old, right? I don't see a big difference that would make; a few wrinkles creased here and there, that's about it. I agree we should keep what works, but holding on to what doesn't is a no. Maybe this time we'll be a different shade of red to satate your tastes
DaveShack said:I beg to differ, it is broken.