Operation Seelowe released.

[Patine]

Haven't looked at the scenario yet Patine? Had you done so, you would know there are Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders and a few Free French, in addition to the British themselves. Italians too, but obviously on the German side.

I have started a game, but I dragged my heels in preparations and felt it was too late in getting anywhere meaningful. I plan to have another try when a few overhanging issues in RL lighten up a bit.

 

[McMonkey]

I'm very honoured by the proposed addition of dear old 'astings as a city. Just off the top of my head, the only major ports in the south-east was/is in Dover and to a lesser extent Folkstone. Hastings has a beach-launched fishing fleet and a small, partially built, harbour arm, but it would be of only minor use to the German navy. The Germans could have landed on the shingle beaches or at flatter sandy beaches nearby at places like Camber Sands/Romney or Pevensey. Nearby Rye (a fellow Cinque Port of Hastings) also had a small harbour. Basically what I'm getting at is that Dover & Folkstone should really be the only ports that can accept troop ships and all other coastal towns in the SE up to London & Portsmouth were only suitable for landing craft.

I've not been very active with Civ2 in the past few months since the data loss. I was gutted to lose my Sealion save just as I was consolidating my hold on London & preparing for the next phase of my offensive. I'd been very much enjoying the scenario up to that point, although I think that the initial invasion was slightly too easy (though a lot of careful planning did go into it). I think the main flaw was the speed at which I was able to reinforce the German bridgehead. If you can find a way of slowing down the flow of reinforcements (bearing in mind docks may well have been sabotaged or damaged) so that the Airborne and Amphibious forces really have to struggle to hold on for several turns against a British counter-attack, then I think the invasion would be perfect. I would also advise devising ways of beefing up the defences of London, perhaps with some pre-places bunker type units to represent the difficulties of fighting in a heavily urban environment.

I'm certainly not advocating for making the scenario massively more difficult across the board, but more for tweaking certain key battles to make it more of a 50/50 success/failure. Obviously, I didn't get the chance to sample the later British counter-attacks, but it seems to me the two most critical battles will be the crossing and London. Once well established ashore any competent player will be extremely difficult for the AI to push back into the sea with anything but massively ahistorical numbers.

 

[Patine]

I'm very honoured by the proposed addition of dear old 'astings as a city. Just off the top of my head, the only major ports in the south-east was/is in Dover and to a lesser extent Folkstone. Hastings has a beach-launched fishing fleet and a small, partially built, harbour arm, but it would be of only minor use to the German navy. The Germans could have landed on the shingle beaches or at flatter sandy beaches nearby at places like Camber Sands/Romney or Pevensey. Nearby Rye (a fellow Cinque Port of Hastings) also had a small harbour. Basically what I'm getting at is that Dover & Folkstone should really be the only ports that can accept troop ships and all other coastal towns in the SE up to London & Portsmouth were only suitable for landing craft.

I've not been very active with Civ2 in the past few months since the data loss. I was gutted to lose my Sealion save just as I was consolidating my hold on London & preparing for the next phase of my offensive. I'd been very much enjoying the scenario up to that point, although I think that the initial invasion was slightly too easy (though a lot of careful planning did go into it). I think the main flaw was the speed at which I was able to reinforce the German bridgehead. If you can find a way of slowing down the flow of reinforcements (bearing in mind docks may well have been sabotaged or damaged) so that the Airborne and Amphibious forces really have to struggle to hold on for several turns against a British counter-attack, then I think the invasion would be perfect. I would also advise devising ways of beefing up the defences of London, perhaps with some pre-places bunker type units to represent the difficulties of fighting in a heavily urban environment.

I'm certainly not advocating for making the scenario massively more difficult across the board, but more for tweaking certain key battles to make it more of a 50/50 success/failure. Obviously, I didn't get the chance to sample the later British counter-attacks, but it seems to me the two most critical battles will be the crossing and London. Once well established ashore any competent player will be extremely difficult for the AI to push back into the sea with anything but massively ahistorical numbers.

Isn't the Nore still a major port or naval facility, or is it mostly just naval HQ and such now?

 

[techumseh]

Thanks Drew, but I like Hastings. It has such invasion history! It's just where I think there should be a port, half way between Dover and Brighton. One of the great advantages of a 'what it' scenario is that you can take liberties with historical accuracy. (Have you looked at the German navy in this scenario? )

More seriously though, I don't think it's terribly far fetched that Hastings and neighboring ports might have been utilized for an invasion. The Germans would have pressed many smaller coastal ships into service that may have been able to use the port and the larger ones could potentially offload their cargoes to smaller vessels.

However, I have given some thought to sorting out the varying capacities of different ports. I see 2 possibilities: first, institute a house rule limiting freighter access to cities designated as major ports only. And second, represent the capacity of major ports by giving one or two freighter units to the Germans after each is captured. This would be instead of allowing them to research freighter units in advance of the invasion. Any thoughts?

I agree with you about the 2 critical battles. I've strengthened Dover's defenses quite a bit, adding a couple more mines, moving the fortress unit outside Canterbury to a position protecting Dover's northern flank, and adding seacliff terrain on both sides. The events now release the SE strategic reserve (1st Armoured and 1st Canadian divisions) only when one of the second tier of cities (Reigate, Tunbridge Wells, Gillingham, etc.) is taken. It might be a lot more exciting if they attacked immediately when one of the SE ports was captured. The problem is which port do I send them to, if more than one is captured?

As for the disappointing 'Battle of London', I have a couple of ideas. Now that I've got the partisan events working, I could add an event to throw them into the fight, as well as adding more reserve units. And I could look at a special terrain with higher defense for London's cities.

Thanks for your comments. I hope you will get back into the swing of things here. We really appreciate your contribution to our little community.

 

[JPetroski]

However, I have given some thought to sorting out the varying capacities of different ports. I see 2 possibilities: first, institute a house rule limiting freighter access to cities designated as major ports only. And second, represent the capacity of major ports by giving one or two freighter units to the Germans after each is captured. This would be instead of allowing them to research freighter units in advance of the invasion. Any thoughts?

I think this would be worth doing. It would make the initial invasion more precarious as there'd be far fewer units and give some real strategic importance to these ports.

Another thing you might consider is using money = fuel like in Over the Reich but tweaking it so it would work with macro.txt. Basically you'd have to deduct funds each time the Germans kill a unit. Perhaps the capture of certain ports (or even cities with known supply depots) could give funds/fuel each turn, without which the invasion could grind to a halt. I have to imagine that more than half the challenge the Germans would face is keeping their army supplied and it's difficult to represent this with Civ2, though reduction of money for attacks actually works pretty well (and is fun).

As for the disappointing 'Battle of London', I have a couple of ideas. Now that I've got the partisan events working, I could add an event to throw them into the fight, as well as adding more reserve units. And I could look at a special terrain with higher defense for London's cities.

I think (at least by looking at the rules - never tested it) that you can give unique defensive bonuses to the special terrain slots, and I know that ToTPP allows you to hand-select where these special terrains go. You might be able to use standard city terrain but use one of the specials to look like sandbags or machine gun nests, etc. and place them in several cities. It would be labor-intensive at this point, but an option.

Thanks for your comments. I hope you will get back into the swing of things here. We really appreciate your contribution to our little community.

Seconded. We need you, McMonkey!

 

[committed hero]

If I could figure out how to get ToT working once more I would

 

[JPetroski]

If I could figure out how to get ToT working once more I would

What issues are you encountering? Perhaps we can help.

 

[committed hero]

When I load a scenario, the game crashes as I am prompted to enter my name.

 

[Patine]

When I load a scenario, the game crashes as I am prompted to enter my name.

There's some bug about the "enter the name" issue (it apparently applies to founding new cities, too) that some users need to solve with a simple trick separate from ToTPP alone. I THINK it was @tootall_2012 who first came across, and may clearly remember the fix.

 

[tootall_2012]

I'm not entirely certain if commited_hero was referring to the following input screen when the scenario is loading:

This used to be an issue before ToTPP where players trying to run Test of Time on a 64 bit computer had first to run Mastermind's Civ2XP64Patcher.exe program, otherwise when you would click on most any input screen the game would crash.

But Tech's Seelowe scenario was designed around ToTPP and therefore if committed_hero installs it, he should be able to run the game without any issues (as TOTPP removes the need to run Mastermind's exe).

I hope I answered your question.

 

[committed hero]

Thank you worthies! Now time to ground those plucky Brits beneath my jackboots.

 

[techumseh]

Good luck!

 

[committed hero]

I admit it's fun merely tooling around London with the motorcycle.

 

[techumseh]

Sure. Pretend you're a tourist.

 

[committed hero]

I lost all of the minesweepers pretty quickly, none left to snoop around Southhampton. When I try again I will come from the direction of Weymouth.

I can spend money to build an airbase, as opposed to disbanding units?

 

[techumseh]

Sure. And always try to give your naval units air cover.

 

[committed hero]

I'd be doing better if I noticed the East End land bridge two turns before I realized where all that resistance was coming from.

 

[committed hero]

My first crack bogged down just south of Manchester. I think my biggest error was using the 88s poorly, largely protecting cities instead of using them as lightning rods for enemy aircraft.

I had very few casualties due to weather - in fact, the naval portion of the game became a non-factor relatively quickly.

Also, I had more money than I knew what to do with. Maybe you can increase the cost per turn of the Military Rule & Gestapo HQ to offset this? That might convince me to build Marktplatzen (which I would incidentally rename Reichskreditkassen, the credit offices which were used in Poland). If this causes too much loss of money at the start you could remove many of the happiness buildings on the continent and build JS Bach's Cathedral as a replacement.

It is extremely fun!

 

[techumseh]

The weather gets worse at the first turn of October, and worsens again at the start of November and December. I move some landing barges to the Strait of Dover, which is the only place they can cross without risk once the bad weather sets in. Others I disband, rather than risk losing the units being transported. Correspondingly, I move my transports towards Le Havre and later, some to Cherbourg. Did the Royal Navy show up?

You could use the extra revenue to rush-build barges and garrisons, or save it to finish Bismark sooner.

I'm not sure the game has enough spaces for all the letters in "Reichskreditkassen". I think I'll stick to Markplatzen.

 

[committed hero]

Can I use Ju-52s on the island without building airbases?

There is room for Reichskreditkass, I tried.