Orthus overpowered?

[Cromagnum P.I.]

Am I doing something wrong or is Orthus just plain overpowered?

Evry time he spawns he beelines for my civ and when he's around on my continent I can't produce warriors as fast as he can destroy them (at least on normal speed.) He's attacking into squares with +50% defense and rarely if ever actually losing any health. I just finished another game where he single handedly conquested my civ. What is up?

 

[SurahAhriman]

You need to note where he spawned if you can, and if he's near you, start getting 4-6 warriors ready. You can't just sit back and let him gain XP, either passively through hero, or though feeding him fodder. Suiciding 3-4 warriors against him usually does the trick if he hits you first, and you may even get a lucky kill on the first handful. I've gotten up to 32 XP from that.

 

[JonathanStrange]

I've not been destroyed by Orthus in ages - and I'm playing on Immortal/Deity generally. Even when he starts near my civ, he doesn't knock my civ out.

I think that's because I queue up warriors immediately. Not right after a worker or two, IMMEDIATELY. When Orthus shows up to attack my palisaded (the Forest Elves get them 1/2 price) hilltop city, he often has to attack crossriver and knock-out 4 or 5 warriors to win.

Maybe you've only a warrior or two in garrison when he arrives or you've been unlucky or both. Orthus is best defeated by fortified units rather than by advancing to meet him. If you do go out, be prepared to lose several warriors.

I generally don't mind Orthus starting near my civ; I like his Axe. It comes in handy for multiple attacks later on.

(I kind of find this thread ironic since I recall a similar one where most everyone was feeling sorry for Orthus, the Axe Loser.)

 

[Morlark]

Yeah, Orthus is anything but overpowered. In literally every single game I play, if he spawns far away from me, 5 turns later I get the message "Orthus has been killed". If the AI can cope that well, it basically means that Orthus is a non-entity. And this was when I was playing on Noble as well, so the AI was getting no production bonuses, and I modded out the AI vs barbarian bonus. He's literally a ton of free xp and a shiny axe.

I suspect the problem is that you're not building enough defenders, and not building them early enough. As is often repeated on these forums, in FFH you really do need to have more defenders than you would in vanilla BTS. And you need to be building them before Orthus even spawns, not after you've spotted that he's near. In one game I had him spawn literally right on my border, only 4 moves away from my capital. Not even enough time to chop out a single warrior (I was playing on marathon).

SurahAhriman is right when he says that you absolutely cannot afford to let Orthus accrue any xp though. You say that he's destroying your warriors faster than you can replace them. My question is, when he gets adjacent to your units, why is he surviving for more than one turn?

You really do need to have adequate defences so that when he rolls up at your city, his first attack is also his last. Don't let him keep attacking, because he'll just keep killing you, and if he's got enough xp for the march promotion, you won't even be doing any damage. And even if he doesn't have march, the extra xp he gets from killing your warriors will be enough to get him a promotion and healing. Instead, let him get off one attack at most (to benefit from the warrior's city defence bonus) and then hit back with the stack that you've been keeping in reserve. You have been keeping a stack in reserve, right? This can be anywhere between three warriors and lots, depending on how many promotions Orthus has managed to pick up so far. If you need to, you can even temporarily draw some defenders away from your other cities (but don't leave them totally undefended), just make sure that you have enough warriors to take him down in a single turn.

Edit:

Orthus, the Axe Loser.

I hadn't heard that name before. I like it. It's very appropriate. Poor Orthus. He just wants some friends to play with his shiny axe (the sharp end). Instead they steal his axe and make him cry.

 

[Nimbus]

I thought he was underpowered, so I gave him March promotion along with a 25% chance of spawning an orc warrior every time he wins a battle. He went back to something to be feared again.

 

[Angel-Julia]

March promotion is a good idea, i find his main drawback is that he doesnt stop to heal. so before long you are fighting a 1hp Orthus. finish him off with an adept, and then it's ready to be promoted to arcmage as soon as you get the tec.

 

[Cromagnum P.I.]

I certainly get that you need to have a lot of warriors. I think it probably had more to do with my poor starting point.
You need to note where he spawned if you can
I'm using patch m and in the four or five games I've played, I was not able to see where he spawned. I try to control chokepoints but when he showed up I hadn't had time to reinforce the warriors there and he had combat 3. When he got to my one and only 2 point city (really bad starting point, should have moved the settlers) I had 4 warriors waiting. I probably should have tossed them all at him then but I figured I'd wait and see what kind of damage he took and as said above he didn't. by the time I made my last warrior he'd already cut down every warrior in my city without damage.
In the games where I manage to drop him, it's usually because I've got a xp farm nearby (barrows) and have been able to upgrade a few units to melee combat.
Also in terms of the AI being able to kill him quickly I don't think meshes with how people can since on the higher difficulties they get bonuses to production and can afford to field large armies.
I suppose I could just make a game without him but I'm trying to play the game on higher difficulties without reloading and living with any loss or win as it happens.

 

[mcwill123]

If other factors are more or less equal, it's a really good idea to build your cities on hills. Especially the first one. I play at Emperor and Orthus is way too easy. (But I have other problems )

 

[Higher Game]

Orthus needs to be changed. His strength isn't that high, but he has a shocking tendency to win without taking any damage (I think it's the fire damage from his axe). I've had a strength 3, fortified warrior behind a palisade get smashed without inflicting any damage on him. I suppose I should have built the city on a hill.

If possible, I would give him +1 strength, but make it so anything he attacks gets +1 first strikes, so he could be whittled down more easily but still be a powerful threat. As it is now, he gets far too many injury free kills and levels off of them.

The biggest problem is that no matter how skilled you are, luck can betray you at that point in the game. It's not like you have many strategic options besides spamming warriors. It's a time period decided by luck.

 

[DaveGold]

Orthus needs to be changed. His strength isn't that high, but he has a shocking tendency to win without taking any damage (I think it's the fire damage from his axe). I've had a strength 3, fortified warrior behind a palisade get smashed without inflicting any damage on him.

That's true but but he usually can't kill four warriors in a row without taking serious damage.

I suspect that a few of the people who find Orthus easy are playing on a tight pangea map where he never gets time to promote. I suspect a few of the people who find him difficult are playing on large Erubus maps where he can gain 4 promotions before you see him.

My advice is to always check the messages for the Orthus and Acheron events and see if they're happening nearby. You can click on the relevant line in the message history and look for the big arrow pointing to them on the map, even in unexplored areas.

 

[Cromagnum P.I.]

That's true but but he usually can't kill four warriors in a row without taking serious damage.

Killed 5 warriors in a row and only dropped to 5.2 strength in my game, all were in a city on a hill, and the first three had been fortified for more than 5 turns (if that even makes a difference in this game.)
My advice is to always check the messages for the Orthus and Acheron events and see if they're happening nearby. You can click on the relevant line in the message history and look for the big arrow pointing to them on the map, even in unexplored areas.
Tried that but it doesn't seem to work for me as of patch m. If Orthus isn't in my visible range, it gives no indication of where he has spawned and I've checked this on two different pc's.

As higher game says above at the point where Orthus spawns in the game, you are pretty well only relying on luck to kill him.

 

[a_civilian]

Again, the problem is that you just left the warriors in your city and let Orthus farm experience off them. Remember that whenever he gets a promotion that heals him. Instead you need to let him attack once and only once and then counterattack with all of your warriors.

 

[Doug Piranha]

My advice is to always check the messages for the Orthus and Acheron events and see if they're happening nearby. You can click on the relevant line in the message history and look for the big arrow pointing to them on the map, even in unexplored areas.

Tried that but it doesn't seem to work for me as of patch m. If Orthus isn't in my visible range, it gives no indication of where he has spawned and I've checked this on two different pc's.

The timing seems to be critical on this. I pop up the message window, then wait until the "Orthus has spawned" message scrolls up on the main screen, then click the "Orthus has spawned" line in the message window. It doesn't seem to work if you click it too early or too late (there's a timeout of maybe 15 seconds).

 

[readercolin]

Playing on maps big and small, crowded and mostly empty, orthus isn't a problem. As a matter of fact, if he is nearby, I will sometimes build a force specifically to hunt him down for his ax (especially if I'm playing as the Ljosfalter... early gilden LOVES that ax...). If you hunt him down, you need to send at least half a dozen warriors after him, and always try to let him have first swing at you (especially if you can lure him onto a desert tile).

You would have to get really unlucky to loose to him if you have 4 warriors and let him attack first shortly after he spawns. Let him attack first, and usually my third warrior (2nd attacker) kills him.

-Colin

 

[Neomega]

Again, the problem is that you just left the warriors in your city and let Orthus farm experience off them. Remember that whenever he gets a promotion that heals him. Instead you need to let him attack once and only once and then counterattack with all of your warriors.

What he said. Sitting in your city is throwing the dice. 4 warriors attacking will usually get the job done.

 

[Higher Game]

There's not much point in attacking him at full health. You generally have to let him get hurt by letting him attack your city, then go after him. The problem is, he can very easily win without getting hurt at all.

 

[Senethro]

No, just attack him anyway. On a high strength orthus theres barely any difference and you should kill him sooner rather than later.

 

[Higher Game]

Orthus with 2 strength promotions and a hill or forest gives 65% defense, bringing him up to 9.9 strength. Attacking that first with 3 strength warriors is sheer futility.

 

[Morkonan]

Orthus is overpowered if you don't prepare adequately for the "worst case scenario." Other than that, he's just fine as he is. As others have noted, Orthus generally doesn't last very long.

One problem, which has also been noted, is if Orthus has the opportunity to feed himself exp. That's why I go hunt him down if at all possible. Plus, his axe is a very nice item to have..

 

[Angel-Julia]

I like it when a neighbouring civ does the job for me, and just leaves his shiny axe sitting on a hill.