Out of my comfort zone

[Greyhawk1]

Just started a new game as Bismarck but turned off the two victories I always go for: Culture and Science.

I'm not a warmonger - I have the occasional spat but no major campaigns usually so I'm no expert at warfare. On exploration, Rome was just a handful of tiles away and Antium, their second city, even closer.

So I'd got a ton of units (well 7) from attacking Barbie camps so I thought it should be easy to take a pop 2 city with 7 units (5 Warriors, 2 Archers).

Did a save and practiced attacking the city from multiple angles. Came to the conclusion that very early units are largely useless for actual war and are designed for killing barbies and defence. I lost around 60% of my forces before taking the city on each try.

I sued for peace and immediately every other civ in the game I'd met up to that point DOW me, including a selection of city states. I'm playing on Warlord where DOW is pretty rare.

So, reload. Wondering when its possible to actually start fighting!

 

[Sagax]

In my games a safe way is to start conquering once you research Engineering for Comp-bows (killing units and siege), Civil Service for Pikemen (taking the city) and Mathematics for siege units. Use the converted Barbarians as a meat shield or the final blow on the city.

Limit your exploration - you get no warmonger penalties with civs that haven't met you and thus are unaware of your actions. In BNW early warmongering is indeed frowned upon, so better wait till Medieval-Renaissance.

One thing to consider though is that by disabling Cultural and Science victories you bring upon yourself a bunch of bloodthirsty AIs - they adapt to your settings. Try to pursue Domination without disabling other victories.

 

[Sherlock]

You can take a early city (1, 2... maybe 3 or 4) with three composite bowmen and two (or three) melee units.

When you have trebuchet, yeah.... that's when you can go to war. If you're attacking a coastal city frigates will do the trick right fast.

 

[Atinuviel]

I'd say the absolute earliest is Composite Bowman. Archer is just too weak to do any meaningful amount of damage to cities, and Chariot Archers are too cumbersome. Attila is an exception because Horse Archers rock and Battering Ram is stupid ridiculous.

 

[Acken]

On warlord I'm pretty sure you can take some easy city with archers/warriors in a very quick rush.

But composite bow is always a safe bet. Try chariots too they are almost as good as composite bow but come a lot sooner.

 

[InspCallahan]

Horsemen and Composite Bowmen make a good combination to attack cities.

- First have composite bows at the border when you declare war
- Enemy units will likely move to the front line; range them to death with your numerous archers
- Move your cavalry along the flanks, move the bows up once it's clear
- Archers fire on the city, once it is at low health grab it in one hit from the horseman

By doing that you will often manage a zero-casualty attack.

 

[DeletedSettler]

Basically, you need way more ranged than your two archers. Warriors charging at a city never goes cleanly. A couple more archers (composites work great) or even a siege unit would go a long way.

 

[Makavcio]

The smallest force needed to take a city built on plains is two archers and one warrior, provided there are no enemy units in sight and the city does not have walls.

Here's how you do it:
Preparation: move your units 3 tiles from the enemy city (1 too far for bombardment) and proceed to the next turn;
Turn.1: declare war and move your archers one turn closer and attack. Your archers should be able to survive 2 hits each, so bombard with both of them;
Turn.2: keep bombarding;
Turn.3: move the damaged archer to the 3rd ring of the city and let him rest;
Turn.4: bombard with one archer and move your warrior right next to the city;
Turn.5: bring back the other archer, bombard the city and conquer it with your warrior.

If the city is on a hill, you'll need either more archers or you'll have to wait for CBs. Keep in mind that as long as enemy is unable to destroy your unit in one attack, you are completely safe and even when you need to withdraw your unit after one attack, all other units you brought keep on bombarding and are untouched.

If there are any units stationed around the city, declare war when they are outside and you can destroy them either in the turn you DoWed, or you are sure they won't be able to hide in the city.

If there are enemy troops in sight and their presence is unavoidable, e.g. when the defending city builds an archer, approach it simply as if it were a city on hills, that is with higher dmg and defense. Also, make use of hills and forests. If a city build on flatlands is surrounded by forests, an ranged units stationed there will not be able to efficiently bombard all units around the city. Also, when your units are stationed in a tile with forest and/or hills, they take noticeably less dmg.

There are many more "ifs" to consider but there are also much more extensive warring guides around the forum

 

[Dr. D]

So I'd got a ton of units (well 7) from attacking Barbie camps so I thought it should be easy to take a pop 2 city with 7 units (5 Warriors, 2 Archers).

If that ratio was flipped to 2 warriors and 5 archers, you could probably take the city with little to no losses so long as the city defenses aren't too high. As Germany, if I have an archer I often try to pick off the brute sitting in the camp in hopes that an archer will spawn in its place for me to take. You'll find ranged units are much more valuable for taking cities.

 

[redwings1340]

Another tactic you can use here is to make a bunch of early units, kill off the opposing Civs armies, and then take cities in peace deals. This will give you far less warmonger hate than taking enemy cities by force, and is far easier to accomplish than taking cities by force. With composite bows, you can take enemy cities if you have enough of them, but killing off enemy armies and getting nice peace deals (you can get some pretty good cities this way) is a more effective tactic than conquering enemy civs early on in my opinion.

 

[Primacide]

No one has responded to the critical part. He took the city and then got a Dow from everyone he knows. I'd say you have to wait to find out who everyone is going to hate and then get your warmongering on. This typically settles out around the time trebuchet come on board, so it works. That's generally my cue that I can start whacking the ai, and I warmonger a lot.

 

[reddishrecue]

Sea maps usually give the ai an easier access to your cities so making ships for defense could be useful... establishing courthouses in other civilizations has its purpose and the purpose is to control. To dominate a map you could also edit the map type and difficulty since these factors usually guarantee domination. Domination could seem so easy sometimes. ..

 

[tat501]

You're Bismarck which means you can win basically any victory easily enough! Use those extra units (from barbs) to conquer your nearest rival - then turtle up - build some big powerhouse cities - use the hanse and build trade routes to CS's then go for either a domination victory with Panzers and bombers - or a diplomatic victory with Gunboat diplomacy (or the one with freedom I think it is where you get influence for trade routes seen as how you'll have loads of trade routes with CS's.)

 

[Greyhawk1]

Well I've been fighting quite a bit vs Darius and Attila. I'm finding warmongering to be frustrating to be honest. So far the best defence a city has is not its units or its walls...its the jungle and forests. Literally all my ranged units have to be one square away to be able to hit because of the amount of jungle and forests. By the time they get in range they are at least at half health.

I'm having to just overwhelm the enemy by using a bait unit to draw fire while moving my comp bowmen in to surround the city. I have Trebuchets but these are practically useless as by the time I am in range, setup and ready to fire the unit is already dead or badly damaged.

Of course then you have to deal with the diplo fallout and unhappiness.

So far I control Amsterdam and Rome. I have a long trek to the Persian capital. I have to take it as Darius seems able to build wonders in no time. He has a ton in Persepolis. We are roughly equal in tech but the AI doesn't upgrade that often.

It might actually be easier to take because its been developed and there's no smegging jungle or forests near it! I can post a save if anyone wants - its warlord so pretty easy for anyone to have a laugh with.

 

[warimano]

My tip: get 2-3 Composites, 2 catapults, and a horseman or a swordsman. Place your ranged units (prioritizing catapults) in forests or on hills so that city bombardment do less damage to them. If you have swordsmen put them on fortify next to the city as a meatshield and later to take the city. IF you have horsemen put them out of range of the city and rush in when the city is at 0 HP. When you set up for an attack make sure there is one Tilde between your units and their borders; that way they can't see you.

Hope it helped


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[warimano]

... And as far as diplomacy goes, i believed the warmongering penalty is smaller if you denounce your enemy before declaring war, but don't quote me on that


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[Greyhawk1]

Persia and France now with capitals taken. Think my army is too strong for the AI to out and out declare war. They just nitpick and choose anti-Germanic policies in the world congress. Siam got Embargo:Germany passed last time so he's next on my hitlist.

Was a bad decision to choose a huge map though. Will take around 25 turns just get my army there...

Still finding ranged units practically useless on this map. They can only shoot over flat terrain unless they find a hill to stand on. I've found it easier to take cities with knights and cavalry.

 

[Sagax]

Was a bad decision to choose a huge map though. Will take around 25 turns just get my army there...

Still finding ranged units practically useless on this map. They can only shoot over flat terrain unless they find a hill to stand on. I've found it easier to take cities with knights and cavalry.

Domination on Huge map is a pain.

Also, start restructuring your army. Get Artillery/Bombers and forget about terrain problems.

 

[Greyhawk1]

Askia made the bad move to send a Great Prophet my way with a useless religion. Refused to stop so I overran Gao. Its slow going with Cavalry, Cannon and Riflemen but will soon be at Artillery.

AI makes some really stupid decisions...I was going for the Persian capital which was a hard slog through tile after tile of Jungle. Took a few minor cites, he sues for peace giving me Pasargadae, which is right next to Persepolis. Well thanks for giving me the perfect staging post...

Tombouctu kept bombarding my only Frigate when its surrounded by Cavalry...France suicided a unit by walking into a citadel... :\

 

[Nares]

He took the city and then got a Dow from everyone he knows.

Because he got a major warmonger hit for capturing an enemy capital and likely wiping out an enemy AI entirely.