[NFP] Pack1: Maya and Grand Colombia

[Pitohui]

I really hope the two new civs are interesting.Just some generic loyalty boni I would be disappointed with.I need more of Mali,Maori-like civs.

 

[Morningcalm]

I really hope the two new civs are interesting.Just some generic loyalty boni I would be disappointed with.I need more of Mali,Maori-like civs.

Agreed! I miss crazy cool civs like Civ V's Venice, Austria, and Shoshone also. (Even if many Civ V civs were one-trick ponies, at least they didn't fall into the Civ VI trap of having so many specific niche bonii that it was hard to remember the civ bonus at all.)

 

[Duckfromstatefarm]

I'll be interested to see where Grand Columbia would be on the TSL Earth Map. I know Maya will be where La Venta is. I'm also interested to see where the Capital of the new Civ would be since I primarily play on TSL Map.

As for the Americas, We currently have the following Civs : America, Canada, Cree, Aztecs, Mapuche, Brazil, and the Inca.

After the first DLC with Maya and Grand Columbia is released would very much make sense to make a TSL Americas map. There should be enough Civs to do a TSL americas map.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm also interested to see where the Capital of the new Civ would be since I primarily play on TSL Map.

Gran Colombia's capital was Bogota, where Colombia's current capital is now. So they will be between the Maya, to the north, and Inca to the south.

 

[WillowBrook]

What are the most likely unique units for each of these civs?

 

[Vilvatiktan]

Lady Six Sky better be having a rad headpiece grander than of Montezuma's

 

[bbbt]

After the first DLC with Maya and Grand Columbia is released would very much make sense to make a TSL Americas map. There should be enough Civs to do a TSL americas map.

The biggest issue I'd see with a TSL Americas map is it wouldn't really work with any of their current map sizes which are all more wide than tall. They could do something like cut off most of Canada and the like, but that still would be a stretch. I don't know how well their engine handles custom map sizes.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What are the most likely unique units for each of these civs?

I'm hoping for a slinger replacement but with throwing spears/javelins for the Maya. Hoping they will be called "Hul'che" instead of Atlatlst.
Give them some kind of ability that makes them more useful than archers so you can keep them until Crossbows.

Llanero (Curassier replacement) for Gran Colombia. Basically South American cowboys that fought in the Latin American Wars of Independence.

 

[Zaarin]

True, but those leaders weren't as highly regarded as Lady Six Sky--Yohl Ik'nal lost a war, and Lady Eveningstar remains mostly shrouded in mystery as to whether she even ruled. Yohl Ik'nal was the first Mayan queen to rule in her own right, though, so maybe they will pick her anyway.

(Unfortunately the Mesoweb page for Lady Six Sky is down, so the most reliable source for her info is not currently available. I wish I had screenshotted it. But I found a book on Amazon that chose her as the Mayan representative as well.)

I agree that Lady Six Sky is the likeliest choice; I'm just pointing out that Maya are one of only a few civs that has options. TBH I wouldn't object to Yohl Ik'nal, though. She was Pacal's grandmother and seems to have been a formidable woman in her own right.

Simón José Antonio de la Santísima Trinidad Bolívar y Palacios Ponte-Andrade y Blanco That's his full name. I bet he says that during introductions. I bet he either has an agenda or a LUA called El Liberator. Bogota was the capital, although Bolivar was closely tied to Caracas.

I wonder if he knew Governor Don Fernando d'Ibarra y Figueroa y Mascarenes y Lampourdos y Souza.

 

[vixlar]

I wish the mayan unique bulding was "Riviera Maya". (It seems it's gonna be the Observatory)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I wish the mayan unique bulding was "Riviera Maya". (It seems it's gonna be the Observatory)

That has nothing to do with the actual Maya though. It's a tourist district in present-day Mexico.

 

[Morningcalm]

I agree that Lady Six Sky is the likeliest choice; I'm just pointing out that Maya are one of only a few civs that has options. TBH I wouldn't object to Yohl Ik'nal, though. She was Pacal's grandmother and seems to have been a formidable woman in her own right.

I am hoping that it will be Lady Six Sky--I've been mentioning her near constantly and now people seem to have latched onto her as a good queen candidate, which I am immensely happy about.

I found some other online sources about her now that the original Mesoweb encyclopedia entry is no longer up for whatever reason (maybe someone ought to email the Mesoweb people to fix that):

• http://www.mesoweb.com/pari/publications/RT08/Stone1991-OCR.pdf ("She was the mother of an important Naranjo ruler, Smoking Squirrel... and seems to have been especially powerful during the early years of his reign... The unusually large quantity of pictorial and epi-graphic information about Lady Six Sky suggests that she was a woman of exceptional power. Closs (1985:72) believed that on Stela 31 Lady Six Sky is shown acceding to the throne.")
• http://www.cnwajournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Helmke-CNWA-11.pdf (analysis of Lady Six Sky starts on P. 94, and the article also mentions Hatshepsut, Catherine II the Great of Russia, and Cixi and analyzes Lady Six Sky in the context of her de facto rule, saying: "Assuming that Lady Six Sky wielded some sort of power from her arrival in AD 682 until her death in 741, this would make her regency one that lasted 59 years, making it one of the longest Classic Maya reigns on record, bested only by a handful of long-reigning monarchs even though she nominally never ruled as monarch.")

As far as offline sources, Chronicle of the Maya Kings and Queens by Simon Martin and Nikolai Grube has a lot on Lady Six Sky attacking from her power base in Naranjo, including the following caption from P. 74:

In the very first appearance of a theme that would be repeated many times at Naranjo, Lady Six Sky stands triumphantly atop the contorted body of a vanquished enemy. Female portraits of this type are exceedingly rare in Maya art and otherwise only known from Calakmul.

And the following quote from P. 76 of Chronicle of the Maya Kings and Queens talks about what Lady Six Sky did after her son was enthroned at the age of 5 (yay toddler king):

With her son safely enthroned, Lady Six Sky moved with haste to commence war-making in his name... Bital.... and Tuubal... were attacked and 'burned', while K'inichil Kab was 'brought down'. Two years later, in 695, Naranjo battled its giant neighbor Tikal... capturing a lord... Most likely this was part of a wider campaign.... Between 696 and 698 Naranjo records four more burnings, including a second and final defeat of K'inichil Kab and, more importantly, the torching of the capital at Ucanal. This resulted in the capture of its king.

So in short, Six Sky was a bad-ass de facto ruler ruling on behalf of her son (vaguely Catherine de Medici/Hatshepsut overtones there for sure).

Certainly Yohl Ik'nal was respected too, and even held onto her rule after her defeat by two other Mayan polities, but I think her being defeated makes her less worthy than Six Sky. I guess I wouldn't complain *too much* if it turned down Six Sky had not been chosen by Firaxis.

 

[berlin88]

The devs read this board. It's going to be Lady Six Sky and Bolivar.

Good.

If the devs read this board, then maybe one of them will pass along the suggestion to add Finland (lead by Jean Sibelius) to the game? They seem to like adding more and more civs to the game, so if they can do Grand Colombia, then surely they can use one of the upcoming 8 civ slots on Finland.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It just occurred to me that the music should be interesting. One with a Latin American folk song and the other probably a folk tune from the Guatemalan highlands.

 

[Morningcalm]

If the devs read this board, then maybe one of them will pass along the suggestion to add Finland (lead by Jean Sibelius) to the game? They seem to like adding more and more civs to the game, so if they can do Grand Colombia, then surely they can use one of the upcoming 8 civ slots on Finland.

They definitely read the Ideas/Suggestions forum too, so you should be able to submit a fleshed-out civ idea there. I like to think my suggestion of Seondeok ages before Rise and Fall had some impact on Firaxis choosing her to lead Korea. Maybe they will take up my Lady Six Sky suggestion for the Maya and Zenobia suggestion for Palmyra as well? One can hope. You can read my suggestions for those leaders from 2016 here.

 

[Zaarin]

It just occurred to me that the music should be interesting. One with a Latin American folk song and the other probably a folk tune from the Guatemalan highlands.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do for the Maya.

Zenobia suggestion for Palmyra

I'm not full of hope, but I'd almost consider this fair recompense for lacking Assyria and/or Babylon.

 

[Saint Leibowitz]

Latin American representation is exciting, but choosing the short-lived Gran Colombia over, say, Argentina, Cuba, or Mexico is a bit of an odd choice. Ah well.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Latin American representation is exciting, but choosing the short-lived Gran Colombia over, say, Argentina, Cuba, or Mexico is a bit of an odd choice. Ah well.

I presume it's because Bolivar meets the "big personality" criteria and also appeals to several Central and South American markets.

 

[Morningcalm]

I presume it's because Bolivar meets the "big personality" criteria and also appeals to several Central and South American markets.

Yeah, exactly--he's considered the heritage of multiple nations, not just one, and that comes with historic heft and commercial weight.

I am delighted we will (likely) see Bolivar as leader. It's about time.

 

[Vahnstad]

I presume it's because Bolivar meets the "big personality" criteria and also appeals to several Central and South American markets.

+ TSL representation. Part of the world that has no civ yet.