PC idea to Enhance Religion in 4

[aidan_b5]

As an amateur historian I am pleased that Firaxis have finally decided to go some way to addressing religion. However I was dismayed to read what they're actually planning on doing.

Not incorporating religion because of political correctness in a game like civ is utter rubbish. Religion is at the very core of civilization and has always been so, it defines culture, attitude to science and a whole host of other attributes (altho less so in the modern day).

In my opinion, as suggested by Darwin, religion should be represented and managed in the same way as government. It should not be centrally managed by the founding cities owner because historically speaking monarchs had the final say as to how the popes policies (for example) impacted upon their kingdoms.

The actual bonuses given for a religion should be set as technology is discovered, for example in the middle ages, Islam should give a bonus to technology, in the industrial age Protestantism should give the same bonus etc.

The penalties for changing religion should be exceptionally severe so that players are inclines to stick with their chosen religion throughout the game, also the idea of citizens having a religion is good - if the state religion differs, unrest etc should ensue.

Militantism is a trait of religion as wielded by government, it should give a bonus to offensive capability.
It is worth noting that militantism has existed in all religions - not just Islam (the crusades are an example of christian militantism)!!

 

[Belcarius]

I'm beginning to understand better what is being proposed here. It's a fair and do-able idea to have religious leaders within your state who could be contacted like governers to set the tone for your religion. And in hindsight, you could possibly not have to use the state religion, seeing as how in present day society different clerics speak to different religions. However, the essential thing to balance this idea is that changing what your religion emphasises should not be instantaneous, although having state religion would make it quicker.

There is another issue here though: would your religious leaders listen to you? History has shown that they can become very powerful and do things their own way (for kings such as Akhenaten and Henry VIII). Maybe what could happen is, if you order them to pursue a dogma not being followed by the same religion in other countries, they might refuse.

 

[aidan_b5]

I suggest the following model:

Each citizen has a religion, new religions become available as tech is discovered. When a new religion is discovered, there is a chance that each citizen within the discovering civ will convert to that religion.

If a civ discovers a religion, they can found a holy city, this increases the chance of citizens in the surrounding area/on the same continent of converting to that religion. Obviously a civ may only found a holy city if their state religion is of that type.

The state religion gives bonuses as built up in a similar fashion to the way govt is built up. Included within this are tolerance sliders for each of the religions, these need to be balanced. If a tolerance to a certain religion is set too low, those citizens will become unhappy. This will model accurately that multi-religion states have always been more prone to unrest.

As further tech is discovered, the emphasis is taken off of these sliders to represent the gradual increase in tolerance.

I recommend that everyone goes and plays Europa Universalis 2 - it models world religion extremely well and is a quality game to boot.

 

[Israelite9191]

I think relgion should be modeled in the following way:

1. Religious leaders acting as a combination of advisor and political leader

2. Religion at its base level should reflect only diplomacy, but to a greater extant. For instance, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity should be united in their approach toward non-monotheistic religions. But, Islam should have better relations with Judaism than with Christianity because while Christianity has a Holy Trinity, both Judaism and Islam have only G-d. Christianity should also have better relations with Judaism than with Islam because Christianity grew out of Judaism but is more of a distant cousin to Islam.

3. In regards to holy cities, more than one holy city should be availiable. For instance, Islam considers Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem all as holy cities. But, as a religion acquires more holy cities, the relevance of each one goes down. For instance, Jerusalem and Rome are both important in Christianity, but neither is as important to Christians as Jerusalem is to Jews.

4. As a religion spreads to new countries they adopt the traits of that country/leader, and those countries adopt new branches of the religion. For instance, as Christianity spreads from Egypt to China, Egypt's original Christianity is replaced in China by Pentecostalism.

5. Whenever a religious great wonder is built, that city becomes a holy city for the religion of that wonder.

6. The religions included in the game should be: 1) Judaism 2) Christianity 3) Islam 4) Hinduism 5) Taoism 6) Confucianism 7) Budhism 8) Shinto 9) Zoroastrianism 10) Vodun (acting as a generic polytheism for African cultures) 11) European Polytheism 12) Native American Polytheism 13) Mesoamerican Polytheism 14) Middle Eastern Polytheism 15) Neo-Paginism 16) East Asian Polytheism 17) Sikhism and 18) Jainism

7. Each civilization should start out with its native relgion, for instance, Greece with European Polytheism, Japan with Shinto, Mali with Vodun (I know it quickly gained Islam but at first it was pollytheistic), the Inca with Mesoamerican polytheism, etc. etc.

 

[wooga]

If you're going to have more religions than the stock civ4, you need to at least split Catholics and Protestant. The impact on legal and economic systems between the Catholic and Protestant nations is no small thing.

I think the best option is for stock civ4 to come with the religions totally neutral, as it appears they are doing. However, editing of the religions should be very simple and straightforward. For example, I want to give Islam an advantage of decreased war weariness. I'm hoping for a religion editor which will let me easily assign these sorts of traits according to my own personal biases.

 

[Truronian]

IDEA SET 1:Religious Relations

Certain religions are naturally different. Different numbers of dieties religous practices, etc. Well, can't you just use the basic aspects of one of the religions, and use it to apply its base relation to other religions?

For Example: Islam is strictly monotheistic,Hinduisim is polytheistic. Muslims probably won't get along that well with Hindus (at least, not at first).

Are Muslims going to be offended because their religion is portrayed as monotheistic? Umm, no, because it is monotheistic!

You might, however offend the Hindus who are not strictly polytheist. They believe in one God (Brahman) who is repressented in many forms (eg. Vishnu, Shiva).

The main problem with giving certain religions traits is that this isn't mirrored in the real world. For instance, one example I saw suggested giving Islam a scientific disadvantage. This overlooks the fact that Islam has been the source of many breakthroughs , just not recently. (eg. Modern Mathematics has Islam to thank).

 

[rhialto]

This is why I favour a system where each religion has a plethora of small and not so small wonders. Each wonder gets an expiry date, sometimes quite short, and each can represent either a sect or a major stage in the development of that religion. So, for example, Islam gets a late medieval wonder to boost science, which expires by early renaissance times. Christianity gets one to spawn crusader units, and in more modern times gets one which promotes peace somehow. There should be many, many of these for each religion, and some should be mutually incompatible (boolean logic rules apply), even within religions, so the same religion could evolve differently each game.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I still say that the decision regarding 'traits' should be up to the founder of the religion (or, at the very least, whomever currently controls a religion's holy city). Although Wonders and stuff are one way to go, I think it would be much easier and 'player-friendly' to simply allow the traits to be 'picked up' by the founder (either directly or via gameplay decisions). Traits can-and should-be changeable, and playing against your current traits should cause internal difficulties for both the founding civ and any civ which later adopts the religion. In the case of the Founder, it should lead to increasing unhappiness-followed ultimately by a requirement to change your current traits (so, for instance a civ that founds a 'Pacifist' religion, then goes on a conquest-spree, might find his nation's unhappiness growing at an alarming pace, to the point where he chooses, or is forced, to adopt a more appropriate trait for the religion) In the case of another adherent, playing against a religion's traits should lead to a possible sect forming within your state-as I have mentioned before.
Anyway, just my $0.02c worth.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.