PIE's Ancient Mediterranean on Deity

[Manco Capac]

Under construction.

A succession game that occurs in PAE mod (Pie's Ancient Europe) on a random mapscript designed by the maker. Given this succession game is also a challenge, deity difficulty was chosen. I have played this difficulty on PAE and I can assure you that doesn't equate to the regular BTS deity. It is harsh at the beginning, but if played right, becomes easier as time goes.

The RNG gods along my partner Lymond, have chosen Boudica as the played leader. In PAE, differences between civilizations are visible. It's a way to recreate the culture proper to each nation. The greeks and babylonians were highly cultured while the huns and celts remained rather redimentary. This limits religions to certain groups of civilizations and same for units and buildings. You may call it an extended sight of UU and UB.

Leader​

Spoiler :

Organized is good. Civic cost are immense in this mod. That'll help the celtic nation when struggling with science.
Charismatic is definitely da warmonger trait. The best that even affect mounted units.

Start​

Spoiler :

Leaders met in order and some historical backgrounds​

Spoiler :

First Met

Spoiler :

Lydia - Croesus

​

Ever heard of expressions like "Rich like Croesus"? Croesus is known to be a rich man and ruled the lands of Lydia, which is in Anatolia.

​

He lived in the 6th century BCE. His palace was located in Sardis and was famous to attract many visitors.

​

One of the visitor was the Athenian stateman, Solon.

​

Croesus displayed his great treasures and then asked Solon who could be the happiest man of all. Solon replied several men who no one ever heard.

Croesus was angry the Athenian could not see the great happiness he felt. But Solon replied no man is considered happy until his death. Because no man knows what awaits him when Gods decide of his kismet.

Pouting, Croesus met the famous Oracle of Delphi to know more about what Gods are preparing for him. The oracle said if he met the great persian leader, Cyrus, his own empire would fall.

Croesus did not listen and was utterly defeated by the Persians. Cyrus ordered Croesus to be burnt alive. At this moment, Croesus recalled the wise words of Solon and shout his name aloud.

Cyrus the Great was touched by the story of the Athenians warning Croesus he ordered him to be released.

The persian leader then asked why he was shouting Solon's name.

Croesus did not respond and simply ask his own question about why the persian soldiers are plundering.

Cyrus was amused.

Croesus added why those soldiers plundered Cyrus' city.

Cyrus stopped his soldiers neat.

Second Met

 

[Manco Capac]

Turnsets Played​

Links available.

1)T0-T31 - Tachywaxon

2)T31-T64 - Lymond [Part 1], [Part 2] and [Part 3]

3)T65-T87 (3350-3130BC) - Tachywaxon

4)T87-T114 (3130-2888 BC) - Lymond

5)T115-T185 (2880-2304 BC) - Tachywaxon - (Part 1), (Part 2) and (Part 3).

6) T186-T202 (2300-2184 BC) - Lymond

7)T202-T222 (2184-2024BC) - Tachywaxon

8) T222-T253 (2024-1776 BC) - Lymond

9)T253-T288 (1776-1496 BC) - Tachywaxon - (Part 1), (Part 2) and (Part 3).

10) T288-T316 (1496-1272 BC) - Lymond

11)T316-T365 (1272-1000 BC) - Tachywaxon - (Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) and(Part 4) Complete failure at Ephesus Siege.

12) T365-T371 (1000-970 BC) - Lymond - Ephesus city-state capitulation.

13)T371-T401 (970-820 BC) - Tachywaxon - (Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Part 4)
. Destruction of Lydia for good.

14)T401-T426 (820-695 BC) - Tachywaxon - (Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Part 4)
. Numidian holocaust just for a couple of shiny glass-like black stones.

 

[Manco Capac]

Gathering several mechanics proper to PAE for future players joining the roster​

Understand how the game works is best to make decisions.


Compendium on how PAE works

PAE is a simulation of ancient times. We start at the neolithic and ends at the beginning of Middle Ages. As we progress through techs, the immediate assumption is how exponential the tech costs are: at the end near the AP tech, on epic, that can be near a million beakers, sorta 5 times the last tech of FTech in regular BTS.

We start at the neolithic, then enters Bronze Age, then Iron Age, then Classical Age and at last, one I never reached yet, Middle Ages, which I think starts with the worst tech of the tech tree, being Heresy (a huge tech and development drawback by many buildings obsolescence; probably a sim of Dark Ages).

The most notable era is the neolithic for being stuck with OCC-like play. Until Internal Colonization tech (Bronze Age) where Settlers are available for expansion, all tribes start with one city (on deity, two tribes). Early game is noticeable with complete lack of control with animals much stronger, FOW constantly coming back, lack of gold and even workers being attacked by outside animals inside the culture.

For a huge part of the game, animals are the only enemies. Around 450 turns on epic with them. I can assure you with even strong army, they are a pain and can spawn at one tile away, meaning the classical fogbusting tricks only work on regular barbs and barb cities.

PAE is mainly python and XML changes, thus is not a profound change in how the AI behaves. It's a heap of python-based events like the tax revolts, city capitulation, easy capitulation (an AI with 4 cities and less will capitulate instantly once you captured one city), etc.

The monolithic mechanics that needed to be observed throughout the game are:

Tax slider​

Tax slider (gold slider) must be 50% or less. For each additional 5% increment, each city gains 1% odd of expensive (in money) revolt. That situation happens when you get equal number of happy faces and unhappy ones. For each spare happy face, you can creep the tax slider for a 5% more without any chance of revolt. It's like dozing the population with entertainment in such a way they accept more readily abuses.

Unhappiness and Unhealthiness​

Another important notion is how important to keep people healthy and happy.
Once you get unhappiness, that leads to some odd of emigration (-2 pops+emigrant) and possible revolts. Once you get sickness, that leads to some odd of emigration (-2 pops+emigrant) and another simultaneous odd of disease outbreak, which can lead to 5 pops and more lost.

Food bin​

The particularity of PAE is how long it takes for growing. For bins can be like 3 times bigger to fill. Nevertheless, there are many forms of granaries, totalizing 75% filled after growth, making the balance a bit. Slavery is thus weaker early.

Improvements​

They cost cash! Don't spam them.

Ultra defense​

This mod highly favors defense over offense, until sieges and lots of bombardment units (think of CivIII catapults in various forms like chariots, archers, sieges, etc.).

If you got more question, feel free to ask them while playing. Because there is a multitude of details to be learnt while playing and too long to ennumerate.

Hey, I discovered this; that was PAE_V patch 4 though, not sure it still stands:

-) dense forest gets to normal forest in deforestation due to unit production

Thus deforestation could help us to transform some of those heavy forests into normal forest, which equate a free +0.25 each. Trading strong outputs for bigger capital...hmmm...still looking how to deactivate deforestation though. Still, we got normal forests in the BFC, which means they are endangered before the dense forests...hmmm.

Found this too:
Important info for incoming players...if they accept:

ineName>MIN_ANIMAL_STARTING_DISTANCE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
<DefineName>MIN_BARBARIAN_STARTING_DISTANCE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
<DefineName>MIN_BARBARIAN_CITY_STARTING_DISTANCE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>3</iDefineIntVal>

What do you think changing wealth and research processes to higher outputs? Right now, it's a ugly 25% both. I think it's rather crap...

Another interesting info...I shall perhaps group them in the early posts soon.

<Define>
<DefineName>ANIMAL_MAX_XP_VALUE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
<DefineName>BARBARIAN_MAX_XP_VALUE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

<Define>
<DefineName>FEATURE_GROWTH_MODIFIER</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>25</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

Define>
<DefineName>PEACE_TREATY_LENGTH</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

<Define>
<DefineName>BASE_FEATURE_PRODUCTION_PERCENT</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>67</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

<Define>
<DefineName>MAX_EXPERIENCE_AFTER_UPGRADE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

<Define>
<DefineName>WE_LOVE_THE_KING_POPULATION_MIN_POPULATION</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>8</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

<Define>
<DefineName>GOLDEN_AGE_LENGTH</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>14</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

Not sure I know what you mean. Are you talking about converting hammers?

Found it! CIV4ProcessInfo.xml

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by Jesse Smith (Firaxis Games) -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
<!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- Process -->
<Civ4ProcessInfo xmlns="x-schema:CIV4GameInfoSchema.xml">
<ProcessInfos>
<ProcessInfo>
<Type>PROCESS_WEALTH</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_WEALTH</Description>
<Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_WEALTH_STRATEGY</Strategy>
<TechPrereq>TECH_CURRENCY</TechPrereq>
<ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>25</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
</ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Process/ProcessWealth.dds</Button>
</ProcessInfo>
<ProcessInfo>
<Type>PROCESS_RESEARCH</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_RESEARCH</Description>
<Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_RESEARCH_STRATEGY</Strategy>
<TechPrereq>TECH_MYSTICISM</TechPrereq>
<ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>25</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
</ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Process/ProcessResearch.dds</Button>
</ProcessInfo>
<ProcessInfo>
<Type>PROCESS_CULTURE</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_CULTURE</Description>
<Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_CULTURE_STRATEGY</Strategy>
<TechPrereq>TECH_DIONYSOS</TechPrereq>
<ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
<iProductionToCommerceModifier>50</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
</ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Process/ProcessCulture.dds</Button>
</ProcessInfo>
</ProcessInfos>
</Civ4ProcessInfo>

 

[lymond]

Well, I've been waitin' to see if there are other takers. Have you tried posting an invite over in the Pie's thread. Deity may be a bit for some, but I'm game.

Interestingly, I was piddling around in Pie's today - inspired by your India game, but I'm playing the spiritual guy.

 

[Manco Capac]

Glad to see you Lymond. I saw your recent post in Pierre's thread, so it went as expected.


In fact, deity is a big word attached to PAE; in fact, I would say early, it is overwhelming as they are teching really fast like the original BTS (but no worry on the defense against random AI rush with 200% defense warriors!, one thing I like about PAE...but can make the defense a bit too cheap and easy and also most wonders are either locked or tied to a particular religion, making late wonder builds possible), but as time goes, it is easier and easier. The AI simply cannot grasp PAE concepts and is constantly struck by revolts/epidemies. In some PAE scenario called Orient (huge size), Chandragupta (India kingdom) lost 50% to rebels!
In the end, it will resemble to IMM and if a generous game like a EMP game.

 

[Manco Capac]

To seal your contract, can you roll me some civ and tell me what you got? Sometimes, one of my villain flaw is to avoid bad leader I roll. In PAE, some leaders are simply bad compared to others. Like playing the Huns is simply more difficult than India/Babylonians/Greeks. I'll take any leader you'll roll.

Regarding settings, I think it's gonna be strategea (the most fun of all mapscripts for resembling to highlands) on regular/large size. We'll decide. I think we may put AggAI for worker stealing abuses, but if you think it is too abusive, we may let this down. I can assure you that without slaves, now deity PAE is significantly harder if we get a bad leader/bad terrains. Everything else is random.

 

[lymond]

Yeah, I actually upped the level to Emperor today and was surprised how fast the AIs were teching early. (I know, Emperor pfft!, but when I play mods I often just play for enjoyment not stress)

I also usually play the scenarios, but tried your Strategea map today. Barbs got really hairy. Nothing I can't handle, but a bit annoying.

One thing that bothers me about the mod is how beastly the animals are early on. The worst is getting like a woody 5 or 6 Hunter to Spear guy and then he falls into a trap. On this map script, I ran into some new 8 strength animal I'd not seen before or even know what it is. No clue how to kill that thing.

Anywho, see if you can find one or two more and maybe we can make this a go.

 

[Manco Capac]

Who am I?

=================================================

One thing that bothers me about the mod is how beastly the animals are early on. The worst is getting like a woody 5 or 6 Hunter to Spear guy and then he falls into a trap. On this map script, I ran into some new 8 strength animal I'd not seen before or even know what it is. No clue how to kill that thing.

Yep, you encountered the legendary Urus/Auroch. A mighty animal venerated in the ancient times for its sheer strength. Yes, I criticized this aspect directly to Pierre for being overly too random just like those random $hit like meteors that simply obliterate everything. Everyone started to gang up against me lol. In mod section, it's the sandbox play being favored, not a balanced game. Sadly. Another world...

I also usually play the scenarios, but tried your Strategea map today. Barbs got really hairy. Nothing I can't handle, but a bit annoying.

It only gets dangerous starting 1200 BC IIRC. Before is the animalistic reign and beast don't naturally target cities. We just need to tiptoe on borders.

Anywho, see if you can find one or two more and maybe we can make this a go.

Change of heart already. I already sent some invitations, but no answers. The favorite no of people is the silence.

 

[lymond]

Nothing is too abusive for me.

Just so I'm clear, do you want me to roll a game or just roll a leader and let you know who it is?

 

[lymond]

Ok, I'm attaching a save with a leader. Does not have to be our game and I'm not sure what settings you want, but it might be a good idea to try opening to make sure we have the same version. I think I'm on the latest beta version 6 or whatever.

I think v7 is coming out soon.

Maybe Cam will join up or some of the other SGers.

 

[lymond]

Ugh...the meteors..why...why!!!

Ha..my city got hit by two wolfs today.

 

[Manco Capac]

Only the leader. I can choose a start by myself. I don't fear my treacherous hand on regenerate for this.

BTW, do you mind if it is epic. It is easier on epic. I looked at the XML values and it favors everyone. Don't recall everything, but buildings, units, other aspects are same as normal...just tech cost is doubled. It favors us to war...and I can assure war can be quite hard occasionally...so epic makes the balance.

Also, since deity can be much if we got no victim nation nearby (a mean to make deity viable), I'll choose a minimalistic riverside start...or have a river nearby.

 

[Manco Capac]

Nooooooo! Bootycat. Bad leader. Ok, challenge accepted. lol. Good thing you rolled for me. I would not have accepted and my bad hand would have rerolled.

 

[Manco Capac]

Also, it might be highly possible that we move the initial settler for 5 turns (after that I think animals start to appear). I know random maps from PAE can be full of rainforest and rainforest is the worst bane of early game. I can assure you AI's stuck in jungles are doomed to be crush by neighbours (in fact not really because of superpowered warriors lol).

 

[lymond]

That game was on Epic as well. I had played Normal in the past, but went up to Epic as I agree that the mod is geared toward slower speeds. Probably really Mara, but that is a too much for me. Heck, I look up at the ticker today after play a while to find like 200 turns had been played and I was still at 3 cities.

Oh.. do you try to foster emigrants? I just tried forcing that today by just letting the city keep grow into unhealth. Basically free settlers, although not really free since you lose a citizen.

 

[lymond]

Well, considering that IW is at least 200 turns or so in, that sounds fine to me.

 

[Manco Capac]

Ugh...the meteors..why...why!!!

Ha..my city got hit by two wolfs today.

Most probably, if we got hit by meteors, it's gonna be reload. That thing is just too bad early. Even later...like losing all your forests, cottages in one strike, making your city a ruin.

Animals don't worry me when it comes to attack cities. Warriors with 200% take care of this very well. For the worker safety, different story.

 

[lymond]

Yep, Meteors are def reload. almost makes you want to turn off events, but at some of the Pie events are interesting. But losing mass improvements is just waaay to costly in this game.

Oh yeah, I don't worry about the city. Warriors are tough nuts to crack until range.

 

[Manco Capac]

That game was on Epic as well. I had played Normal in the past, but went up to Epic as I agree that the mod is geared toward slower speeds. Probably really Mara, but that is a too much for me. Heck, I look up at the ticker today after play a while to find like 200 turns had been played and I was still at 3 cities.

Oh.. do you try to foster emigrants? I just tried forcing that today by just letting the city keep grow into unhealth. Basically free settlers, although not really free since you lose a citizen.

Yep, a big part of the game is being stuck to the neolithic period. One thing that made me laugh in my prototype plays was when I attempted to warrior rush a neighbour with >12 of them and succeeding led me to get another city well before settlers are enabled. Anyways...

Yep, emigrants are a neat way to either found more cities or transfer your present capital pop (royalty+dynasty means altogether 50% on food!!!) to side cities struggling more with growth.

 

[Manco Capac]

Yep, Meteors are def reload. almost makes you want to turn off events, but at some of the Pie events are interesting. But losing mass improvements is just waaay to costly in this game.

Oh yeah, I don't worry about the city. Warriors are tough nuts to crack until range.

There is another event I call the mercenary vedic archer. It happened to me without alert. It basically said someone who hates me paid a band of mercenaries and those mercenaries were drop (better said teleported...so I have to imagine those one were in people clothing...) by the capital in the middle of the empire. Simply astounding stupid. Why would I defend my capital with more than 2 soldiers and the quantity forced me to anticipate more.