Pineappledan Tweaks for VP

[pineappledan]

New version coming out

 - removed the production disruption spy action
 - Songhai nerfs: River Roads movement and Visibility from embarkation removed. Defense when embarked reduced to +50%
 - Korean Hwacha changes:
 --- Hwacha now a Cannon replacement, unlocking at gunpowder
 --- No longer has Logistics
 --- has unique Singijeon promotion: 5 splash damage (stacks with other forms of splash), and gives a -1 movement plague for 2 turns

songhai and beach’s changes are @Hinin’s

I think Songhai's UA needs a complete rework, but for now they are more balanced and more unique without those abilities than they are with them.

 

[Supreme Leader]

For China tweaks are artifacts are no longer supposed to count as great works unlike base VP? Also their WLTKD ability doesn't scale properly with different gamespeeds besides normal I believe.

 

[pineappledan]

Artifacts are not Great Works for the purposes of China’s bonus, no.

 

[Guynemer]

Have you considered adding some buffs to GEs in this? I know you expressed concern that they don't scale well compared to other GP.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@pineappledan The list of tweaks becomes longer and longer. Do they add something to VP or just neglect your input?

 

[pineappledan]

Well, they just added the espionage change,

Without G’s active participation, balance changes have been slowed way down. I did manage to get a few changes into main VP a few months ago though.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Did G retired from modding?

 

[pineappledan]

Did G retired from modding?

he is still around, but not much of a pulse. He had another kid, so even less time for other things now.

 

[notque]

he is still around, but not much of a pulse. He had another kid, so even less time for other things now.

Same reason I stopped modding.

 

[Zanteogo]

I don't know if it was answered, as I don't have time to read though 16 pages, but what is the reason of the massive power boost to early ranged units?

I'm looking at the CS and thinking this makes them way more tanky than they should be.

I understand the ranged damage increase, base archers are trash IMHO, but the combat increase?

 

[pineappledan]

I don't know if it was answered, as I don't have time to read though 16 pages, but what is the reason of the massive power boost to early ranged units?

I'm looking at the CS and thinking this makes them way more tanky than they should be.

I understand the ranged damage increase, base archers are trash IMHO, but the combat increase?

they have all been pushed back 1 tech so they need to be stronger. Slinger has the same RCS as the old archer, but has -1 range and +2 Melee CS

 

[Zanteogo]

they have all been pushed back 1 tech so they need to be stronger. Slinger has the same RCS as the old archer, but has -1 range and +2 Melee CS

Even still, they don't seem that much further down the tech path considering their added beefyness.

How does this play out in practice? Do ranged units become semi front line units after this? I image sticking them in forts would be way more useful due to the defense multiplier.

Not knocking on your choice mind you, just trying to understand it.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm hoping that people can try it and come back with feedback on if it feels fair or not. I set the the CS and RCS for those units as they are based on my intuition on what is balanced at those tech levels and for that unit cost relative to other units at the time. I don't have much time these days to test this, so I am hoping others can come back with informed opinions re: these units.

 

[Zanteogo]

I'm hoping that people can try it and come back with feedback on if it feels fair or not. I set the the CS and RCS for those units as they are based on my intuition on what is balanced at those tech levels and for that unit cost relative to other units at the time. I don't have much time these days to test this, so I am hoping others can come back with informed opinions re: these units.

I'm going to give it a try.

I would think raising the ranged damage is a good thing, as it's very lacking in VP on the earlier units, I fear the combat increase just makes them too much like melee units.

 

[Zanteogo]

Did some testing today. Some notes.

The slinger unit window of use is so small I don't see much use for it. I play on slower game speeds, can't imagine it has any real use on regular. The only use I can see it to build them to upgrade them to archers.

The archer become useful, but as a feared is too much of a tank. Using horse units to flank and attack is pointless as they take too long to take out. I would suggest lessening the combat strength.

Compound archers are really useful. Probably too much. Same issues as the archer.

In VP I find ranged units overall kind of garbage, up until crossbows and they fall off again around machine guns. My standard rule for my army before crossbows is a ratio of 1 ranged, 2 siege, 3 melee, 2 horse melee and 1 horse ranged. With this mod mod, I find I lean towards 3 ranged, 1 siege,1 melee, 0.5 horse melee and 0.5 horse ranged.

Suggestions:
-Give horse units a bonus against ranged units.
-Lower the CS of archers and compound bows by 1, increase their ranged damage by 1
-Return the ranged defense to sword units

Due to testing I did not get a chance to test anything in mid to late game.

 

[youngsteve]

I don't usually play with mods, except some very minor ones, but have recently tried your changes. I must say from what I have seen so far I have been impressed, particularly with the ranged units. Unlike the above poster I do think the new slinger unit is useful, & see the AI & city states use them to good effect. all the time, until they obtain archers. I have recently been playing on marathon speed so not sure if that makes a difference. Mind you on standard, nearly every unit seems to be out of date with a short time frame, & it is nice to see units stay around for awhile. I haven't really been noticing the other units so much, mainly as I keep starting afresh & trying other things out.

All in all I must say you have done a good job, & thought I would come on to give you my support.

 

[pineappledan]

Big update:

Unit changes
- Lowered Archer and Comp Bowman CS by 1
- All Airship-line units now begin their turn with unobstructed vision in a 4-tile radius around them.

Instant Yield reworks
- Replaced all instant tourism yields on buildings:
   - Circus: now 100 culture on construction
   - Zoo now 500 Science on construction
   - Stadium now 2500 GAP and 20 Influence with all City-States on construction

Late Game Plant changes
- Buffed Power Plants
   - All Power plants now have at least 15% production modifier
   - Power plants no longer require a Factory in the city
- Refinery moved back 1 tech to Plastic and now gives 1 Oil, in addition to Coal and Iron

Tourism building reworks:
- Airports no longer give any tourism bonuses to Great works or Culture from tiles 
- Stadium reworked:
   - now gives +50% to Great Works, and no bonus to culture from tiles
- Tourism Center National wonder replaced with Interpretive Center
   - unlocked at Telecommunications and requires a Hotel
   - 50% conversion of culture to tourism from tiles near the city
   - +2 Happiness
   - +1 Tourism and Culture to all landmarks on Empire
- CN Tower now gives 25% GW / Culture tile conversion locally AND 25% GW / Culture tile conversion globally 

National Parks Improvement moved into this mod
   - Used to be a standalone mod
   - Late game improvement that can be built on removable features (forest, jungle, marsh), gives a large amount of culture, science, and tourism
   - acts as a late game incentive to retain your removable features and de-industrialize your existing natural spaces

New building: Supermarket
   - Uses the old Grocer's icon. Grocer renamed to Pharmacy (no changes to the actual building)
   - unlocked at Refrigeration, requires a Hospital
   - Building gains +1 Food for every Farm and Pasture tile in your empire, regardless of where it is or if it is being worked
   - Triples the gold generated from city connections in this city
   - 2 specialists in the city do not produce unhappiness from Urbanization
   - Acts as a counterbalance to the national park, providing a huge incentive to chop and develop land everywhere for highly-urbanized cities

 

[adan_eslavo]

Those Tourism changes, were they forced by smth or just you are balancing the mod?

 

[pineappledan]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/additional-late-game-buildings.674562/
lively discussion on how late game buildings could use another pass, and try to slow down culture victory a bit.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Ahh that's the point. Ok.