Planting Forests

[iggy_playing]

I'm tryin to plant forests near a city that i'm building a wonder in so that i can cut it down and help with the building costs. some times i recoup 10 shields and other times nothing. can someone explain to me the logic behind this. do i have to wait a while or something?

also is there any way to improve a square from plains to grasslands. i was hoping if i plant enough forests it might. tho i haven't seen this happen thus far.

 

[Mariusz]

You get 10 shields only from forests that existed from the begining of the game, you don't get anything for chopping planted forests.

 

[island007]

The scoop on the Forest cut.

You get 10 shields when you chop a forest. Each tile can only give this 10 shield bonus ONCE in the entire game(It does not matter if the tile was initially forest or if you planted it). The shields will only help with the construction of units or improvments NOT wonders. If it is a wonder in the production slot you get NO shields.

 

[MadScot]

There are no terraforming capabilities from planting forests - the underlying tile will remain tundra, plains or grassland no matter what.

(You can terraform with nuclear weapons, but that's a bit extreme!)

I like to use mass planting/harvesting of forests for captured cities - once in the modern ages, with all my home terrain improved and a bunch of slaves without work to do I send a bunch to a corrupt 1spt town that needs, say, an aqueduct, and systematically plant, harvest and then restore the tile to the original status (mine etc). Unless the AI cut down a forest before I took the town I can usually get 50 or more shields towards the improvement.

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by MadScot

(You can terraform with nuclear weapons, but that's a bit extreme!)

You can't terraform tundra, can you?
Tried it in vanilla, but it didn't work
Perhaps different for PTW?

 

[Hygro]

you cannot rush wonders with forests

if you have tundra next to desrt, the tundra will become grasslands, so you have to work your way up, and only one layer at a time :-(

 

[Shabbaman]

Originally posted by Mariusz
You get 10 shields only from forests that existed from the begining of the game, you don't get anything for chopping planted forests.

iirc that was changed in one of the later patches, so for him it might work (which means he should patch).

 

[TheNiceOne]

It would be better if people only answered if they knew the correct answer

For the record, island007 is correct regarding the forest chopping: You get 10 shields from a tile the first time you chop a forest there, unless you're currently building a wonder.

I have never tried the effects of nuclear weapons on tundra, so I will not answer that, but there is certainly no way to make plains into grassland.

 

[iggy_playing]

okay.. how about this. in the city your tryin to build the wonder in you try to build something big like a palace. recoup 10 shields from each square then change to the wonder. will you lose the 10 shields per square or is the AI too dumb to realize it?

also is there a penalty for changing production?

also do you recoup 10 shields only from squares that can be used by the city or can you recoup from squares nearby?

Originally posted by TheNiceOne
It would be better if people only answered if they knew the correct answer

For the record, island007 is correct regarding the forest chopping: You get 10 shields from a tile the first time you chop a forest there, unless you're currently building a wonder.

I have never tried the effects of nuclear weapons on tundra, so I will not answer that, but there is certainly no way to make plains into grassland.

 

[Hygro]

Originally posted by TheNiceOne
It would be better if people only answered if they knew the correct answer
...
I have never tried the effects of nuclear weapons on tundra, so I will not answer that, but there is certainly no way to make plains into grassland.

It would also be nice if you read my post a little more clearly: make deserts next to tundra and the tundra becomes grasslands.

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by iggy_playing
okay.. how about this. in the city your tryin to build the wonder in you try to build something big like a palace. recoup 10 shields from each square then change to the wonder. will you lose the 10 shields per square or is the AI too dumb to realize it?
also is there a penalty for changing production?
also do you recoup 10 shields only from squares that can be used by the city or can you recoup from squares nearby?

island was right for *normal* (=no (small) wonder or palcae) improvements/units to be built.
If you have chopped a forest while building a *normal* improvement (and gained the 10 shields), you won't be able to sitch to palace/wonder (it's greyed out then).
If you chop down a forest while building palace/wonder, no shields are added to production progress box.
Forests must be in city radius to gain the 10 shield bonus.
edit: If the forest tile is shared by 2 cities, you should place a citizen from that city you want the shields for on that forest tile. (This is an "official" rule; however, it doesn't seem to work properly)

@Hygro: But doesn't tundra terraforming pay off for large clusters of tundra? If I got that right, I'll ruin a max of 6 grassland tiles, at the most?

 

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by Hygro
It would also be nice if you read my post a little more clearly: make deserts next to tundra and the tundra becomes grasslands.

Hygro, my rant wasn't directed at you, but at the wrong forest chopping answers. I only meant to answer the original question re: terraforming from plains to grassland when I said that was impossible.

 

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by iggy_playing
okay.. how about this. in the city your tryin to build the wonder in you try to build something big like a palace. recoup 10 shields from each square then change to the wonder. will you lose the 10 shields per square or is the AI too dumb to realize it?

You will not be able to switch to the palace or any small/great wonders before having finished another improvement first. Until you finish a normal improvement, your palace/wonders will be grayed out for that city.

also is there a penalty for changing production?

also do you recoup 10 shields only from squares that can be used by the city or can you recoup from squares nearby?

No penalty for changing production.

I'm 99% sure that you only get shields from squares within the city's 21 tiles, but I have never tested it explicitely.

 

[amirsan]

I dont get it??? THen whats the point of planting new forests????

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by amirsan
I dont get it??? THen whats the point of planting new forests????

The point is: Plant forests on a tile where never had been forest before. Then chop them down to gain the 10-shield production bonus - when you don't build a wonder/palace there (or plan to switch to it).
This is speds up things for (badly improved) cities w/ high waste and when you have many workers around (and kicks really in w/ rep. parts, demo, being industrious).

@TNO: You can't harvest forests outside the 21-tile radius. For the 10 shield bonus, that is. (I've tested chopping down such forests).
Having said that, I'm not 100% sure if you get the bonus from forests that are in the 21-tile radius, but outside actual cultural borders (so in the case city has no border expansion). I *think* you must wait for the border expansion before cutting down such forest.
edit: Isn't there an article called "Forest operations" or such?

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by amirsan
I dont get it??? THen whats the point of planting new forests????

Putting aside the "10 shields for chopping" point, forests are also useful for: (1) improving a tundra tile pre-railroad; (2) increasing shield production in a city with plenty of food pre-hospitals (i.e., planting on regular grassland - trading a food for a shield when the city is stuck at size 12 anyway); and (3) securing your borders.

WRT my number (3) -- if I have an aggressive neighbor that is competitive tech-wise and potentially stronger militarily than me (say I'm playing peacefully), planting forests on my borders will not affect my units movement rate (the tile is roaded or railed), but will affect the blitz capabilities of enemy Riders, cavalry, panzers, etc. It's not something I do often, but if I'm playing to a diplo or spaceship win and I have a large German empire next door, I start to think about all necessary defensive measures .

 

[Grille]

in addition to Catt's point(3) "securing borders":
You could also plant a forest beneath a fortress to increase the defensive bonus of deployed units.

And if you've read my "nuke-terraforming" threadjack: you can *protect* tiles changing from plains to desert (for example) by planting a forest; nuking (and global warming) will remove the forest, but not downgrading the tile beneath.

 

[Grille]

Found the article.
A very detailed analysis of this forest topic is provided by cracker's "Forestry Operations".

 

[ivory]

Cracker's article ("book" is a better description) is pretty exhaustive, but one question not answered is what happens when workers from another civ cut down your forests. I had this happen to me one time, I wondered what was going on until I realized they needed access to my fresh water lake so they could irrigate to their neighbouring town. The answer is: you don't get the 10 shields from their work.
I found it no reason to complain about or start a war over, I could probably have made them stop by sending in a troop of my own workers and cut down the forest on the adjacent tile in less time, so that hopefully their single worker would abandon his job and start irrigating.

 

[Grille]

Yes, ai civs cleared my forest to get fresh water access, too. Your right, you don't get the shields then.
Since then, I'm observing surroundings carefully, because it seems to be somewhat predictable that the ai "improves" your terrain (including forest clearing) for their irrigation benefit. If I plan to clear such a forest for the shields (later), I block the tile. That also prevents the ai city from growing.