[RD] Poe’s Law is Wrong

[BvBPL]

Poe’s Law is an internet truism which states that without a clear indication of comedy, any parody or satire of an extreme view will be mistaken by some party as the genuine article. In other words, if you make up something ridiculous about, say, a Creationist and do not indicate you are being funny then someone will believe the ridiculous thing you made up as a truth.


Poe’s Law is a true statement where the potential audience for a statement is broad. Being a true statement doesn’t make it right though. Part of the point of satire is that it can be mistaken as the real deal. That’s part of what makes it smart. Deny the audience the opportunity to figure out what you actually mean themselves, and you’ve robbed the statement of essential wit.


So Poe’s Law, while true, isn’t useful in writing satire. That smiley face that shows you are only kidding is a crutch. Stop limping and let your words run.

 

[Lexicus]

Poe's Law doesn't tell anyone to make sure their audience can tell they were joking.

 

[Tahuti]

I ended up digging the Daily Stormer I placed here long ago because of this thread.

 

[Leoreth]

I kind of disagree. As a writer of satire, if the reader cannot tell if it's satire, you have failed. If the reader can immediately tell it's satire, you also have failed. It's all about riding that line.

I mean, think about well respected satire like The Onion. Their satire works because you can only tell because you know The Onion, and the internet is full of examples where people take their articles seriously or "is that The Onion?" comments on farcical news events.

But I have always felt Poe's Law was more about people trying to be serious looking like satire, than the other way around.

 

[BvBPL]

If you only have the reader then is should be pretty easy to target your statement to ensure that one reader understands it is satire. So, yeah, if your one reader fails to understand that it is satire then you have failed.

However, most satire is written not for the reader, but for a broad audience. Since you cannot account for the whole of the audience to understand that something is satire without pushing it the other way over the line so that some significant portion readily sees through the ploy, it is best to not signal the statement as satire. Yes, this will mean some members of the audience will not understand that a statement is satire.

 

[Perfection]

It is completely wrong to say anything but the full literal Truth on the Internet. Satire is a form of deciet.

 

[Ryika]

That smiley face that shows you are only kidding is a crutch.

I think that's not really what Poe's law is about, it's more about using rhetorical devices in a way that a reader can figure out that you're doing satire. Those should of course be subtle, but they need to be there, otherwise your "satire" just reads like a stupid argument made by a sincere person and is indeed virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Hey, this reminds me, I' ve got something to run by all-a-ya on the subject of Poe's Law. i don't want to derail this thread right now, but once it has seemed to run its course, I'll share my idea, either here or I'll start a new thread.

 

[BvBPL]

I think that's not really what Poe's law is about, it's more about using rhetorical devices in a way that a reader can figure out that you're doing satire. Those should of course be subtle, but they need to be there, otherwise your "satire" just reads like a stupid argument made by a sincere person and is indeed virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.

No, I don't think so. Poe's Law says the device must be "clear," as in, not subtle.

 

[Borachio]

How about the reverse of Poe's Law?

I remember as a teenager thinking that very nearly every pop song that I heard had to be satire, or at least tongue-in-cheek.

But this was probably indicative of my own state of mind (hormones, and all that) rather than genuine attempts by satirical songwriters.

(Although, of course, at least some songs had to be satire. Didn't they?)

 

[Ryika]

No, I don't think so. Poe's Law says the device must be "clear," as in, not subtle.

Ehh, but Poe's law is not a guide to satire, it doesn't tell you "So use smileys!" - it merely states a fact, that if there is no sign of irony on display, then people will think you're making a real argument.

Having looked at wikipedia though, some people seem indeed use it as "So make it obvious you're using irony!", that's pretty dumb in my opinion.

 

[BvBPL]

How about the reverse of Poe's Law?

I remember as a teenager thinking that very nearly every pop song that I heard had to be satire, or at least tongue-in-cheek.

But this was probably indicative of my own state of mind (hormones, and all that) rather than genuine attempts by satirical songwriters.

(Although, of course, at least some songs had to be satire. Didn't they?)

I think being jaded like that is merely a common result of your age at the time.

 

[warpus]

Is this thread satire? I can't tell