Political Philosophy discussion

[Sakura Matou]

I guess left wingers are concerned about other humans so they pick soft sciences.

Right wingers are thinking about themselves - sometimes putting profit and their ego all above, so they pick potentially most profitable stuff.
By educated in real world I assume all sort of engineering related fields.
I bet math and theoretical physics may be too theoretical for you

Yeah Cute, saying I don't care about other humans or think Physics or Math are Theoretical. If you knew anything about what I am studying for now when I am not on duty you would get egg on your face for the latter part of that comment. XD
I thought better of you Raxo and never thought you would make such a comment like that.


All because I am fed up with anyone being called "Uneducated" by left wingers who don't agree with them?

I could say ALOT more but I don't want to come off as an arrogant jerk.

I'm not a moron like you think I am it seems.

 

[MattCA]

I never finished high school.
People on the right are uneducated and people on the left are over educated and end up out of touch with reality. Can't change a flat tire.

Right wingers are thinking about themselves - sometimes putting profit and their ego all above, so they pick potentially most profitable stuff.

Elon Musk will do more to save the planet with his electric cars than anybody on the left.

 

[Sakura Matou]

I never finished high school.
People on the right are uneducated and people on the left are over educated and end up out of touch with reality. Can't change a flat tire.

Elon Musk will do more to save the planet with his electric cars than anybody on the left.

Most of my country is center right to traditionlist ((our largest left party would be considered Facist by US or EU leftists XD)). We all have to go through a pretty intense education program. That being said there are ways to be educated without a University degree in the world. Like Trade schools. For example one can learn carprentry and then use that knowledge to build things such as houses, I find that as a form of education as I for one can't build a house. My point is more saying is we shouldn't Judge people on one's "Education" as it is a form of Class warfare so to speak. In my opinion we all have a part to play to make society function and we should not judge people based on if they went outside of the standard education system or not.

 

[MattCA]

My point is more saying is we shouldn't Judge people on one's "Education" as it is a form of Class warfare so to speak.

You don't want class warfare? Are you rich? You gonna end up on the wrong side?

 

[Sakura Matou]

You don't want class warfare? Are you rich? You gonna end up on the wrong side?

End up on the wrong side of what? Why ask about my financial situation, why does that matter with how I feel? No I don't want class warfare, and was only using Class Warfare as an analogy to what I said earlier as the media and leftists use it as an insult to people that don't agree with them as Uneducated and it just makes them sound elitist and above everyone else...........

I just want people to find their Niche and not judge others by what they may have or may not have, and not be judged for it as long as they are trying to be productive and law abiding.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I don't find the right is 'uneducated', just educated with different biases, towards Adam Smith style economic everyone out for themselves style thinking. Yes, here in some regions you TEND towards more education in the urban centers, and in SOME Rural communities even having a high school degree might be hard to come by because the blue collar work available doesn't incline them to care to go farther than they need there. Right wing here seems to also want to consider the Bible a source of self-verifiable fact. I'm not against seeing religion as a way to connect to inner knowledge but I do struggle to see how one can believe any religious text is the actual word of the Deity that is uncontestable by external, personally test repeatable evidence.

Still, I find its more about the more recent education one has received, the more left they tend to lean due to updates in our sciences, particularly economic ones, supporting more left leaning principles of economic cooperation and less profit motive solves all things perspectives as it has been shown that profit motives alone tend to devolve into lessening quality and more parasitic business practices over time. Anyhow, I don't think one side is necessarily smarter than the other and both tribes are blinded by incredible self-assurance of their own superiorities. And yes, sometimes university level education is most easily absorbed by those with no imaginations nor common sense.

But help me out with my original question here... did I really just see the Canadian right wing complaining that there wasn't ENOUGH governmental support being spent for its people??????? How does that not immediately brand them as liberal leftists?

 

[Pepo]

But help me out with my original question here... did I really just see the Canadian right wing complaining that there wasn't ENOUGH governmental support being spent for its people??????? How does that not immediately brand them as liberal leftists?

Because being left or rigth is context dependent? (And because this is the internet - that's on a rethorical form )

 

[Maltazard]

I was always skeptical of right wingers critical of academia as a breeding ground for left wing ideologies... well, now that I'm back in studying, in my university a poll was held and 80% of the students self identified as left wingers. It seems that only in economics and law there's room to be openly not left wing.
Not a single one of my sociology professors is not left wing and theories that are just that, theories, like critical gender theory, are presented as a standard of truth. It's really hard to be skeptical let alone non aligned with all of it. We do study the other theories but merely from an historical point of view, there's no debate.
It's really sad because I believe that neomarxists like Adorno and Sartre were onto something regarding praxis, power structures cycles and so on, but now all that intellectual exercise gets reduced to feminism and anti-white anti-european rhetoric without any of the innately critical beliefs. For instance: feminism would be doomed to replicate the power structures of patriarchy that it is fighting against, which in my opinion it is clearly doing so, as modern feminism is more about taking power positions for women on the basis of gender identity than about any sort of equality of gender, but there's zero self awareness. The idea that power structures are the inherent issue and what needs to be addressed is out of the window, now it's all about taking that power by some pretentious superiority belief. The saddest part is that for the most part there is absolutely no discussion regarding these topics, it's taken as axioms. In a university we should have more plurality and diversity of thought I feel.
Our anthropology course is basically a constant pouring of cultural relativism and historical revisionism on the tone of "white men were very very bad" without any mention of other cultures bad practices. It's utterly demoralising and I can see it affects these young people deeply.

And this is in Italy, traditional backwards western country. I can't imagine what takes place in California. Now I understand how Jordan Peterson happened.
Matter of fact, regarding the Bible, I see just as much blind faithfullness in left wing academics towards their own group. No one questions nothing, peer review in social sciences is basically truth by consensus and a complete circle jerk, methodology basically explains how absolutely nothing in social sciences can be objective and devoid of bias and is completely subject to researcher intent. And yet no one is self critical.

 

[raxo2222]

Because being left or rigth is context dependent? (And because this is the internet - that's on a rethorical form )

Yeah, USA is so shifted right wing, that it has both right wing parties - far right and center right.

 

[Maltazard]

True, but the shift has happened with regards of which demographics are targeted by which political areas both in Europe and North America. The fact that blue collar workers went from unions to voting fascists in some extremes can be explained ultimately by the loss of jobs and increase in competition caused by globalization and immigration. What I have a harder time understanding is the left wing urbanite phenomenon, it really seems like they want to delegate all aspects of life to the government, independently of what they get back and of whether they actually need to do it, which is a new thing. Might be related to overproduction of consumption goods and general excess of wellness seen in these demographics, a lack of everyday challenges and detachment from practical things.
On the other hand, I'd abhor a government made of blue collar people, it takes some preparation to rule orhers. My electrician friend keeps telling me that Mussolini was a communist, which is the same as nazism somehow, and cries about his socialist government and their taxes, that provides him with up to two years of unemployment check worth 800€ after having worked three months total. He votes for the fascist party that wants to remove the very benefit he relies on. Bizarre people on the right as well.

 

[MattCA]

Yeah, USA is so shifted right wing, that it has both right wing parties - far right and center right.

That's why they are have #1 economy.
Check out USA oil production. Obama was 2009-2017. He increased production more then Trump, while talking about saving the planet.
U.S. Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day) (eia.gov)

 

[raxo2222]

That's why they are have #1 economy.
Check out USA oil production. Obama was 2009-2017. He increased production more then Trump, while talking about saving the planet.
U.S. Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day) (eia.gov)

Yeah maximizing profits and GDP no matter what externalities is what they like to do

 

[Pepo]

That's why they are have #1 economy.
Check out USA oil production. Obama was 2009-2017. He increased production more then Trump, while talking about saving the planet.
U.S. Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day) (eia.gov)

They had been the number 1 economy for over a century until China... so leftist have better economy ,huh

I was always skeptical of right wingers critical of academia as a breeding ground for left wing ideologies...

What we define about a breeding ground for left wing ideologies? Do people change their world view due to what they see in univeristy? Bc I seriously doubt that. I would concede that there may be in global an ideological bias in certain careers, but even then, it varies from university to university. I had sociology profesors who were openly economically liberal (which imo is rigth wing) and they weren't a minority either. Cases like Jordan Peterson are also not a good example, he complains about an ideological bias while still working as a proffesor, and being in general a snowflake about society not respecting his opinion when he doesn't have the decency of referring to people as they want to be referred to. I can respect people having different views on trans issues, but if someone wants to be referred as a man and you keep treating him as a woman, that's simply a lack of etiquette and being in general an *******.

 

[Sakura Matou]

They had been the number 1 economy for over a century until China... so leftist have better economy ,huh
What we define about a breeding ground for left wing ideologies? Do people change their world view due to what they see in univeristy? Bc I seriously doubt that. I would concede that there may be in global an ideological bias in certain careers, but even then, it varies from university to university. I had sociology profesors who were openly economically liberal (which imo is rigth wing) and they weren't a minority either. Cases like Jordan Peterson are also not a good example, he complains about an ideological bias while still working as a proffesor, and being in general a snowflake about society not respecting his opinion when he doesn't have the decency of referring to people as they want to be referred to. I can respect people having different views on trans issues, but if someone wants to be referred as a man and you keep treating him as a woman, that's simply a lack of etiquette and being in general an *******.

The USA still has the largest economy in the world, and China's economy is as powerful as it is due to US corporations and investment. Also not all is well in China right now as their Public sector is losing massive amounts of money ((especially Rail and Highways)) and are in the middle of a major real estate bubble.

 

[raxo2222]

They had been the number 1 economy for over a century until China... so leftist have better economy ,huh

China has more people though - they are catching up after century of humiliation.
Also Europe took off while others stayed in place.

I want to see you all in multiplayer game in Victoria 3 when its released

 

[Sakura Matou]

China has more people though - they are catching up after century of humiliation.
Also Europe took off while others stayed in place.

I want to see you all in multiplayer game in Victoria 3 when its released

Deal!

 

[Pepo]

The USA still has the largest economy in the world, and China's economy is as powerful as it is due to US corporations and investment. Also not all is well in China right now as their Public sector is losing massive amounts of money ((especially Rail and Highways)) and are in the middle of a major real estate bubble.

Not by Gdp at PPP. And if we go by GDP per Capita then we would say that Qatar or Liechenstein are the top of developed economies Regardless I was making fun of the agument that america is nº1 due to rigth wing policies, there are a lot more things involved in USA economic performance thougth the years.

 

[Sakura Matou]

Not by Gdp at PPP. And if we go by GDP per Capita then we would say that Qatar or Liechenstein are the top of developed economies Regardless I was making fun of the agument that america is nº1 due to rigth wing policies, there are a lot more things involved in USA economic performance thougth the years.

Even that being said the USA still controls the largest share percentage of the Global economy by a long shot and also has a far larger GDP per Capita then China.Even my home country has a much larger GDP per capita then China.

It was our old Prime Minister's economic right wing policys that could be attributed to finally breaking us free of the stagnation of the Lost Decade, although we have larger issues to face in the future that has nothing to do with politics that could cause problems and to an extent already are.

 

[Maltazard]

Do people change their world view due to what they see in univeristy? Bc I seriously doubt that.

You should think back to when you were 18. Professors are mentors and provide a reference point for values and beliefs. Few will challenge them. I taste the waters a little bit with some bland questions here and there and I see zero critical thinking, full out cult like adhesion to certain debatable ideas that are constantly promoted, like the theory of women being currently a disadvantaged population due to some male conspiracy while holding 60% of higher education titles and it's like talking to an empty can.
These things matter. If they're not taught about gender theory as a theory but as gospel, it matters. If they're told by figured of authority that white people are the "bad race" of the history of humanity, it matters. When they have to repeat these things to pass their exams and therefore undergo forced introjection of these ideas, it's brainwashing grade. It's actually happening.

Jordan Peterson had a good spell until he started believing he was the new Messiah and started crying everywhere. Still, many of the things he has to say regarding identity politics hold true. Gender theory and identity politics are mutually exclusive at their core anyway (see TERFs), it's all a confused, convoluted, contradictory nonsense for the sake of making everyone happy at the cost of sanity. No one has still managed to explain what's wrong with binary genders. Genetic abnormalities of all kind exists, we don't call midgets a separate race from humanity because they're dwarves, do we? If Bob is a hermaphrodite it doesn't invalidate the concept of male and female. Man and woman being a social construct doesn't mean it's a castle in the sky, it is rooted in biology, it's not entirely made up. You want to address issues with sexism? You don't need gender theory for that.

It's funny that the individualism of the US somehow managed to create more "wealth" than the selfless communitarianism of East Asian economies. However, if we measured wealth by manufactured goods rather than stock market index, China would indeed be ahead. Everyone is taking a really big gamble allowing some core manufacturing monopolies to consolidate in main land China. Complete failure of our complex economic system is just one embargo away.

 

[Sakura Matou]

You should think back to when you were 18. Professors are mentors and provide a reference point for values and beliefs. Few will challenge them. I taste the waters a little bit with some bland questions here and there and I see zero critical thinking, full out cult like adhesion to certain debatable ideas that are constantly promoted, like the theory of women being currently a disadvantaged population due to some male conspiracy while holding 60% of higher education titles and it's like talking to an empty can.
These things matter. If they're not taught about gender theory as a theory but as gospel, it matters. If they're told by figured of authority that white people are the "bad race" of the history of humanity, it matters. When they have to repeat these things to pass their exams and therefore undergo forced introjection of these ideas, it's brainwashing grade. It's actually happening.

Jordan Peterson had a good spell until he started believing he was the new Messiah and started crying everywhere. Still, many of the things he has to say regarding identity politics hold true. Gender theory and identity politics are mutually exclusive at their core anyway (see TERFs), it's all a confused, convoluted, contradictory nonsense for the sake of making everyone happy at the cost of sanity. No one has still managed to explain what's wrong with binary genders. Genetic abnormalities of all kind exists, we don't call midgets a separate race from humanity because they're dwarves, do we? If Bob is a hermaphrodite it doesn't invalidate the concept of male and female. Man and woman being a social construct doesn't mean it's a castle in the sky, it is rooted in biology, it's not entirely made up. You want to address issues with sexism? You don't need gender theory for that.

It's funny that the individualism of the US somehow managed to create more "wealth" than the selfless communitarianism of East Asian economies. However, if we measured wealth by manufactured goods rather than stock market index, China would indeed be ahead. Everyone is taking a really big gamble allowing some core manufacturing monopolies to consolidate in main land China. Complete failure of our complex economic system is just one embargo away.

Spot on once again Maltazard. My personal experience with schooling having an effect doesn't come from University but with High School. The person that had the biggest influence in my life was ironicly a history teacher from Germany who taught in Japan. My political beliefs, interest in economics, world affiairs/politics and even my current career choice were heavily influenced by him and he is my Role Model in life. I still am in touch with him to this day and now a family friend. Teachers and schooling can have a major impact on people's lives, especially when they are young. Thankfully I am able to also see the big picture with things as well and he has helped teach me this and has helped me learn this skill myself.

I sometimes wonder if Countries like Sweden and the USA's youth and how they act overall ((Entitled, rude etc)) also comes down to the education system. I'm pretty young myself but seeing how my peers in my age group act abroad sometimes blindsides my sister, friends and I. Perhaps it is just a culture thing and I am looking to much into it.