Poll: how much would you change old civs in the next patch?

[ahawk]

Minor tweaks:

German UA tweak

Spanish UA tweak (500 gold [on Standard] for first to a wonder is now maybe a bit much, given the changes to how gold is earned)

Celtic Pictish Warrior (let it keep the faith-earning ability upon upgrading)

Songhai (add +1 culture to UB, give them an incentive to build it even when failing to found a religion, which I find is fairly often)


This is what I would do. Minor stuff, but I'm sure after playing more BNW I'll find more related to changes in the game.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Egypt - No tourism bonus? Really? I mean its EGYPT! Thats where like Archaeology was born practically.

Born by English and French hands. Egypt didn't start archaeology, it became the first victim of "it belongs in a museum" mentality.

 

[ggmoyang]

The main problem, I think, with the Netherlands UA is that the AI doesn't make use of it. At all. William is still as reluctant to trade away his last remaining luxuries even though HE would be the one benefiting from the deal. I don't know if this is because they have been too lazy to code him properly, but if they can't code him to make use of his UA, they they should change the UA to something that the AI can make use of.

At least they value their last copy at x1.5 cost, unlike others(x3).

 

[Tiggurix]

Minor tweaks:
Celtic Pictish Warrior (let it keep the faith-earning ability upon upgrading)

If the Pictish Warriors should keep their faith-earning ability on upgrade, then the Legion should also keep its ability to make roads and forts on upgrade. Though I do think that the Pictish Warrior should upgrade to Longswordmen rather than Pikemen. I mean, they're carrying SWORDS, and they don't get the ability to do extra damage against Mounted units, like the unit they replace do, and their Foreign Lands bonus would do more good on the Longswordman and its upgrades than on the Pikeman line, with their higher Combat Strength.

 

[seancolorado]

Songhai (add +1 culture to UB, give them an incentive to build it even when failing to found a religion, which I find is fairly often)

Nah, +2 is plenty fine that early on. Especially considering the free maintenance. And not founding a religion isn't a big deal given that you can buy a great people from any of the SP trees

 

[Sheershaw]

India needs a change, IMO. They are the only Civ in the game that actively punish you for not playing a certain way. I understand that India was designed to be a tall, cultural civ, I really do. But punishing players for expansion is not the way to do it.

With every other civ, I can play however I want, even if it goes against that civ's focus. I can play a peaceful, cultural Attila if I wanted to. It wouldn't be making good use of his abilities, sure. But at the same time, the game doesn't say "No Attila! You're supposed to warmonger! All cultural buildings cost double hammers for you!"

 

[Tiggurix]

India needs a change, IMO. They are the only Civ in the game that actively punish you for not playing a certain way. I understand that India was designed to be a tall, cultural civ, I really do. But punishing players for expansion is not the way to do it.

With every other civ, I can play however I want, even if it goes against that civ's focus. I can play a peaceful, cultural Attila if I wanted to. It wouldn't be making good use of his abilities, sure. But at the same time, the game doesn't say "No Attila! You're supposed to warmonger! All cultural buildings cost double hammers for you!"

True. And not only that, but I find it kind of insulting that India, with its long history and variety of culture and religions, is characterised in the game by the fact that they have a high population. There are much more interesting facets of India they could explore in creating a new UA. For example, the ability on the UB of Indonesia would be perfect as a UA for India, but that ability is kinda taken by Indonesia now, so they could come up with something else.

 

[Sheershaw]

True. And not only that, but I find it kind of insulting that India, with its long history and variety of culture and religions, is characterised in the game by the fact that they have a high population. There are much more interesting facets of India they could explore in creating a new UA. For example, the ability on the UB of Indonesia would be perfect as a UA for India, but that ability is kinda taken by Indonesia now, so they could come up with something else.

Yeah, that's a good point. Not to mention India is hardly the only densely populated country in the world. We might as well give "Population Growth" to Japan and the Netherlands.

 

[Gehennas]

Germany - replace Landskhecht with something else. Gold is still an issue in Medieval. So there is no need in quick-building infantry.
Denmark - UA&Berserkers are ok, but, I think, they should have some cultural UB unstead of Ski Infantry.
America - Definetely needs new UA. Diplomacy-based one.
Russia - should be completely redesigned just to make any historical sense.
Dutch - should get new UA. Based on trade routes.

 

[VirtuallyJesse]

I'm really adverse to random % chance mechanics. Like the German barb camp and Ottoman naval conversion. I'd like to see these changed specifically.

 

[wigwam]

Tear it all down!

I'd redesign a lot of the UUs—certainly the Hoplite, the Quinquereme, the Landsknecht, and the Musketeer—and replace the Ballista entirely.

Entirely new UAs for China, Germany, India, and the Ottomans. Reworked UAs for Japan, Russia, Denmark, and maybe Songhai and the Huns. Replace the Indian UB. Completely overhaul Babylon.

 

[oddtail]

I think if they changed Germany's, America's and Japan's abilities a little and tweaked the Pictish Warrior and possibly Sipahi, I'd be perfectly satisfied. As they are, these civs / units are rather underwhelming.

 

[Securion]

It worries me though that America wasn't mentioned in the PolyCast... But then again, neither was Denmark...

 

[Ikael]

Glad to see that I am not the only one that views the majority of Vainilla V civs as vastly inferior as the new ones. I would really like to make a mod in order to solve this issue, but I would like to wait and see what the original game designers come up with, since the other previous redesigns (France and Arabia) were truthly genious.

As for which civs I would like to see remade:

Germany: Change its UA, buff the Panzer, replace the Landsketch

Horribly represented civ, both in terms of balance and flavour. Where's industrial Germany, the XVIIIth century nation of poets and philosophers and the current economic powerhouse of Europe? It also doesn't help that its UA is a mish mash of other UA's for maximum boredom. Change it Firaxis, please.

Japan: Change its UA, remake the Samurai, Replace the Zero

Another of the worst designed vainilla Civs, also suffering from balance and flavor issues or "warmonger-itis". I think that both a war - like and cultured type of civ would suit Japan, or they could make it a scientific civ if they want, seeing how there are so little of these in the game. Either way, playing with Japan is just... boring.

America: Change its UA into something that it is actually worthwhile and / or interesting. Perhaps even replace one of its UU

America, obsolete at the discovery of the Soshone. Nuff said. Not to mention that passive type of bonuses like the ones of its UA, doesn't lead to any kind of change into playstyle or strategy. That's bland as hell. Also, albeit both its UU are decent, the bomber comes too late to make any kind of meaningful difference.


India: Change everything. Tear it down, rebuild it again.

Ill designed from day one, it is also quite dissapointing to see that from all the angles that such a rich culture such as India offers, they just opted for popullation and... elephants. Gotta design an American Civ with a cowboy based UU, I guess.

Ottomans: Change its UA

Its UU are cleverly designed, but they really ougth to change their UA, which has a severe overlap with Germany's and the "Convert the heathen" reformation belief, not to mention that they are yet again another "warmongered" civilization.

The Celts: Change its UA and UB

Whichever differential advantage they might have, it dissappears by the time the race for the pantheon is over, that is, extremely early. Its UU is well designed and it has been buffed by the latests BNW changes, but its UB is as generic as it goes.

Egypt: Change its UB

I cannot believe that archeology is introduced yet it hasn't affected Egypt. Some kind of bonus towards artifact generation in their lands, would be in order, me thinks.

The Dutch: Change its UA, tweak its UI

Their UA is completely meaningless with the new mechanics (no more early lump sum gifts), and the introduction of the trade routes just scream for some kind trade route related UA. Also, the Polder, even if it is an awesome improvement, it is quite ill -represented in game, me thinks (shouldn't it be built on coasts instead?).

 

[wigwam]

buff the Panzer, replace the Landsketch

I see this a lot, and I strongly disagree.

The Landsknecht is both extremely historically important and comes at a crucial place in the Civ 5 tech tree. If redesigned, it could be a very cool, very fun UU (like the Impi). The Panzer, on the other hand, is pretty much irrelevant, both historically and in the game.

Historians, grognards, and computer gamers have fetishized German tanks over the years, but the truth is that they were totally outclassed by Allied—especially Soviet—tanks from the beginning of the war. Only one good German tank (the Tiger, on which Civ 5's Panzer UU is based) was introduced early enough to make a difference in the war, and it ended up being inefficient, high-maintenance, and too expensive to be mass-produced. The Panther was the only state-of-the-art German tank produced in significant numbers during the war, and it, too, was ultimately outclassed by its Soviet counterpart (the IS-2).

The success of German armor during the war was because of leadership and tactics, and there's an Autocracy tenet for that. If anybody gets a tank UU, it should be Russia.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

ARABIA-STYLE BUFFS, PLEASE

Dutch UA: No DOF necessary to trade for lump sum gold; retain 2 happiness... etc.
Now the dutch are back to being the free wheeling, early expansion, trading power they used to be.

Germany UA: +15% combat bonus in foreign lands after discovery of Chivalry; +3 science per internal trade route
Now Germany has an expansionist motivation and a science boost that allows them to wage war in the mid-game

Japan UA: Melee/Gunpowder and Air units fight at full strength, +17% resistance to foreign tourism
Reflects Japan's strong military, and forces would-be cultural powers to confront them militarily in the modern era

USA UA: +1 sight for military units, +1 tourism from stock exchanges, stadiums, and broadcast towers
Lets America get the tourism boost it deserves, but will require highly developed cities (to avoid ICS spam)


MINOR CHANGE
Morocco +1 culture per era per international trade route

 

[oddtail]

ARABIA-STYLE BUFFS, PLEASE

Dutch UA: No DOF necessary to trade for lump sum gold; retain 2 happiness... etc.
Now the dutch are back to being the free wheeling, early expansion, trading power they used to be.

Germany UA: +15% combat bonus in foreign lands after discovery of Chivalry; +3 science per internal trade route
Now Germany has an expansionist motivation and a science boost that allows them to wage war in the mid-game

Japan UA: Melee/Gunpowder and Air units fight at full strength, +17% resistance to foreign tourism
Reflects Japan's strong military, and forces would-be cultural powers to confront them militarily in the modern era

USA UA: +1 sight for military units, +1 tourism from stock exchanges, stadiums, and broadcast towers
Lets America get the tourism boost it deserves, but will require highly developed cities (to avoid ICS spam)


MINOR CHANGE
Morocco +1 culture per era per international trade route

I like all these changes, a lot. Maybe with the exception of Morocco. Too much culture bonus per trade route could end up being too significant. Morocco is powerful as it is.

But the others? Well thought-out, reasonable and balanced (at first glance).

 

[Azradun]

I'd like to see buildings that would make Tourism generate money. I think it would be good - we have real touristic economies, and otherwise tourism doesn't generate much.

 

[mrwho]

I'd like to see changes to:

Morocco
Germany
Songhai
The Celts
Russia
Assyria
Poland
Indonesia
Polynesia
Japan
America

All of these civs have pretty bad UAs IMO. I'm surprised by how crappy some of the new civs are.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

I'd like to see changes to:

Morocco
Germany
Songhai
The Celts
Russia
Assyria
Poland
Indonesia
Polynesia
Japan
America

All of these civs have pretty bad UAs IMO. I'm surprised by how crappy some of the new civs are.

Songhai, Russia, Assyria, and especially Poland are regarded as very strong UAs... Have you played with any of them in BNW?