Poll: Trade ethics and endless guilt...

[Lemon Merchant]

Well, since this is my 600th post and I've annoyed you all 600 times, I thought might post a little poll to celebrate.

Sometimes, in a game, I find myself a little pressed for cash. I notice, via BUG, that Izzy is 3 turns away from tech X and she has 300 gold to trade. Hmmm. I have tech X. Let's see if she's stupid enough to give me money for it...

Goodness! She gave me all 300! I wonder how much money Monty has...

Most of us probably do it. Sometimes you have to. At least at lower levels it's an exploitable game mechanic. But being an exploit, does that make it like cheating?

Thoughts?

 

[sabo]

The AI has advantages (especially at higher levels) and the human has advantages, it all evens out so I would say if the game was designed to do certain things it's not a cheat. At least until firaxis Patches it

 

[champ82]

No.

Some AIs won't trade military science for assembly line, electricity and 1000 gold - not that I would really want to make that trade, but still - the fact that some AIs are that stuborn means we should exploit them.

Plus they can make demands on us and we suffer diplo penalities if we refuse but not vice versa so screw em.

 

[Stoney the I]

I dont consider it an exploit. The AI gets the tech 3 turns faster thx to my loyal service... right?

But playing with no tech brokering often gives the "we would have nothing to gain" thingy, so I cant use it too often.

 

[Wolf33]

The AI players are my opponents and generally speaking, enemies. I have never had any qualms over using every dirty trick in the book to trump my enemies.

 

[Deckhand]

I've never done this. Need to use BUG or pay more attention to the espionage results.

It is definitely exploitive as it uses information not normally available to the player.
This is almost as bad as attacking units when they aren't at full strength or a city before it has a high cultural defense. Why won't the human ever play fair?

 

[Earthling]

One question: Does BUG tell you stuff like this even if you don't have espionage? Is this actually BUG or are you just being hasty? I think it would be an exploit to know what all the AI are researching.

But in general, no, it's an exploit that the AI can hide money from us! And make unilateral demands only against the human, and know how much we've researched without espionage, and not trade techs at parity, and auto-gift techs to vassals, and more.

In short, I'm in favor of ANY "exploit" that gets you more money in trade; the diplomacy system is so broken against the human anyway. The only limit is my time - for instance I don't usually bother messing around with gp-gifting and then resource trading because that's a lot of work, but otherwise tech-whore away!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Exploit? Bug? I'm going to be nice here, and simply point out that you are vastly mistaken if you think that selling a tech to an AI who gets it a couple turns earlier is an exploit. There is a measurable benefit to getting techs a few turns earlier...sometimes I'm on the buying end!

It is definitely exploitive as it uses information not normally available to the player.

Um...no? It requires an investment in espionage, but if you have the espionage the information is *always* available.

Looking through the fog using move queuing is an example of an exploit. Using an intentionally-implemented feature to your advantage is *not* an exploit, it's good strategy.

 

[Antilogic]

Exploit? Bug? I'm going to be nice here, and simply point out that you are vastly mistaken if you think that selling a tech to an AI who gets it a couple turns earlier is an exploit. There is a measurable benefit to getting techs a few turns earlier...sometimes I'm on the buying end!



Um...no? It requires an investment in espionage, but if you have the espionage the information is *always* available.

Looking through the fog using move queuing is an example of an exploit. Using an intentionally-implemented feature to your advantage is *not* an exploit, it's good strategy.

Right on. I've done this many times, especially with my vassals, to get enough money to upgrade troops and attack, for example. It's useful.

 

[Volapyk]

I'm with the me in team on this one, this is not an exploit, have you never bought a crucial tech a few turns earlier from the AI? You should try it, its usually worth it

 

[Willem]

At least at lower levels it's an exploitable game mechanic. But being an exploit, does that make it like cheating?

Well since the AI itself will make those kinds of offers, I'd hardly call it an exploit. I quite often get a civ offering me some cash for a tech that they have almost finished researching. Sometimes I go along with it, sometimes I don't. It depends on what the tech is and/or on how far ahead I am of the other civ.

 

[Willem]

It is definitely exploitive as it uses information not normally available to the player.

That information is available to the player even in a normal game. If you have enough espionage points you can see whatever the AI is researching right in your scroreboard. It has nothing at all to do with the BUG mod.

 

[MonRiverMonarch]

The AI will offer cash & tech trades to me when I'm a turn or two away from getting a certain tech as well....but, in my case I just assumed the AI knows I'm a lousy player and it's trying to exploit me! So, I don't believe it's an exploit to offer a tech or cash to an AI at any time.

 

[MonRiverMonarch]

Well, since this is my 600th post and I've annoyed you all 600 times, I thought might post a little poll to celebrate.

Congratulations on #600!

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Right on. I've done this many times, especially with my vassals, to get enough money to upgrade troops and attack, for example. It's useful.

And you get the "Our trade relations..." bonus modifier too, I believe.

I actually think it's kind of hilarious that your enemy will help to finance his/her own destruction through stupidity. I like the idea that I can take Monty's money and his pants with the infantry he helped to finance.

I do it so often in my latest games that I had a visit from the Vice Squad the other day...

 

[Eco-Friendly]

(And I'm back )


Exploit? Gold is GOLD (and GOLD is GOOD) and plus they get the tech a few turns earlier.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Well since the AI itself will make those kinds of offers, I'd hardly call it an exploit. I quite often get a civ offering me some cash for a tech that they have almost finished researching. Sometimes I go along with it, sometimes I don't. It depends on what the tech is and/or on how far ahead I am of the other civ.

I know what you mean, and I do the same. It just feels a little cheesy sometimes. You know, like the high maintenance girl out on a date, taking her companion for a big expensive dinner and anything else she can get, then making the poor guy/girl settle for a handshake at the door. Now, THAT'S an exploit.

 

[Willem]

I know what you mean, and I do the same. It just feels a little cheesy sometimes.

I don't see it that way. If they're already researching the tech they're going to get it anyway, so I may as well make a bit of gold out of it and improve my diplomacy while I'm at it. If however they pose any sort of military threat or rivalry, or the tech allows them to build a Wonder I'm currently working on, then I'll make them wait those extra turns.

 

[nullspace]

It's not an exploit at all, the AI is getting a good deal. They'll only pay 300 gold if there are more than 300 beakers left to go in the tech.

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, I've done the same (bought a tech with a bit left to go). If they didn't pay attention at all to how many beakers they've put into it, then it'd be an exploit. But they do.