Pre-ChaNES: Into the Void
- Thread starter Chandrasekhar
- Start date
BananaLee
Fruity Penguin
Two wrongs also don't make a right.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Imo, Masada's attempting to take Symphony's mantle of both excessive arguments and snarkiness. 
Nothing personal of course.
Colonial population and industrial growth models from Earth disprove the "baww the colonies will nevar be strong" argument. And has anyone considered the underlying difficulties of maintaining a united federation of over 100 different cultural and linguistic entities without any separate agendas or ideals fracturing it AT ALL EVER?
But I'm not really willing to dredge up quantitative data, asI'm lazy I have more productive things to do.
It was a great NES, Chand.
Nothing personal of course. Colonial population and industrial growth models from Earth disprove the "baww the colonies will nevar be strong" argument. And has anyone considered the underlying difficulties of maintaining a united federation of over 100 different cultural and linguistic entities without any separate agendas or ideals fracturing it AT ALL EVER?
But I'm not really willing to dredge up quantitative data, as
It was a great NES, Chand.
If Chand has something to say about it, I'll defer to him. Otherwise, I don't feel like continuing an argument that won't do anything but turn into ad hominem attacks.
Also, I want to see a ChaNES II of some sort.
Also, I want to see a ChaNES II of some sort.
Azale said:
Golly gee princess, I call people to account and suddenly I'm the big bad ogre?
Thlayli said:
Thlayli, sure if you want to ignore scale -- then yes, America might apply. It doesn't however, to support a full industrialized economy at present levels requires billions of people doing millions of different jobs. Even a pencil requires a degree of technical complexity simply beyond any society of less than a few million, assuming they had all the requisite technical knowledge and capital goods -- which they probably won't. I can exhaustively go through the reasons why they won't develop, Dutch Diseases, lack of incentive, low real labor force participation, high costs in labor and capital (both of which need to be imported from elsewhere), the inability to trade and a myriad of other factors which presuppose strength by any measure you care to look at. I'm also sure that in your world the United States and the European Union don't exist.
But that's fine, suggest some improvements, I personally like the scare resources 'spice' idea, myself.
Thlayli said:
I agree completely. Chandrasekhar went for realism, achieved some significant measure of it and when it started to ossify, he wouldn't sell his principles to please the masses.
Supermath said:
Bring em' on?
I have to say I agree with Masada. It would be a long time, if ever that inter system combat would take place, so mostly this was internal development with a massive focus on Sol. Not that I minded, I loved playing Bacchus.
BananaLee
Fruity Penguin
Nah, but being a dick over a NES which is declared dead over and over again is the wrong.
If you want to call out on wrong things to satisfy your desire to beat easy targets down, I'm sure there's heaps of things in real life you could be a dick about to. Better still, join Parliament and you can earn $110,000 a year doing that plus allowances and subsidies.
Point is, you're trying to be Symphony and failing at it. At least your predecessor obsessively-compulsively made random things like maps and doctrines. The last I checked, that mantle was taken by flyingchicken. You just took the "oh dear, I'm such a little Richard I need to call people out for something which is pointless".
In sum, you got the bad things of Symph, without any of the good things. So please, no one likes a dick. And no one likes a copycat dick.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
This might be an interesting/entertaining time to point out that the Independent Republic of Carmenta was actually a side-project, sponsored and encouraged by the anarcho-syndicalist pirate group which I was really running, the Astartes Collective.
It was this group which procured the material for the nuclear detonation over Carmenta, in addition to other operations. Last of all, the group was funded and supported by none other than Orion Industries, NK's humble terraforming conglomerate.
How cool is thaaat.
It was this group which procured the material for the nuclear detonation over Carmenta, in addition to other operations. Last of all, the group was funded and supported by none other than Orion Industries, NK's humble terraforming conglomerate.
Spoiler Some stuff you might find interesting :
Thlayli said:
How cool is thaaat.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
It should be noted that the original intention of the Orion Industries / Astartes group was to bring down the PRC through a mixture of subversion and overt piracy; justification being that said PRC was the only non-democratic institution left. Then Thlayli started going off into Carmenta and I got a bit worried, so I was attempting to cut ties to it... In the end, the other projects Orion was starting would have been more important.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
As the group evolved, a side-goal became the ultimate destruction of all large-scale governmental and corporate entities operating in space. Obviously Orion didn't subscribe to that part.
The PRC was the main target, and other operations were in progress there that never came to fruition because the pre-NES closed so soon. But it's true, NK distanced himself fairly effectively by the end.
JosefStalinator
Я буду снова здесь
BananaLee said:
EDIT: Sorry, Buddha, but valid criticism doesn't require karmic redress to prove its validity.
Icekommander
Colonel
His point still stands though. There is really no reason to continue to try to bring down what was a good game by pointing out everything that is wrong with it. Once the arguement got started of course, it was really unavoidable, but why the heck are you trying to tell everyone what a horrible game it was, after pretty much everyone was sad (if in agreement) to see it go.
Moderator Action: Please settle down and keep the discussion civil.
Icekommander said:
Just to clear up whose side I'm on:
Chandrasekhar said:
Chandrasekhar said:
Chandrasekhar said:
Chandrasekhar said:
Chandrasekhar said:
Chandrasekhar said:
Chandrasekhar said:
Now, we've cleared up the fact that I'm the one parroting the party line, unless its some sort of parallel universe where right is wrong and wrong is right!
Adrogans said:
Even the player of the only viable non-Terran entity acknowledges he wasn't in a position to do jack, which is a simple statement of fact and nothing else.
P.S I was considering enacting a 'corporate takeover' of the Bacchus government, before I found out it was already firmly under the corporate thumb.
BananaLee said:
Number of times I've volunteered to sacrifice my time to co-moderate ~ 10. Number of takers who have actually carried through, nil. Number of 'blank checks' I have issued for my own time for a variety of purposes including: maps significant. Number of takers, nil. Attempts at finding an optimal blend of realism, entertainment and ease of updating for a fresh-start ~ 4. Satisfaction with attempts thus far ~ 30% up from 0%. Refinements needed:
- Better explanation of points system; [on way]
- More dynamic world; [check]
- map with 'proxies'; [on way]
- Desire to restart because of perfectionism; [stifled]
- Interested players; [check]
- Sufficiently interested to hound me when I fail to update inexplicably. [check]
Happiness with non-rule related content ~ 80%. But whatever lets get into a 'whose content is bigger than whose', I'd personally prefer a careful examination of where the NES fell short and what could be done to avoid the NEsing 'original sin' of a uni-polar world, but whatever.
BananaLee
Fruity Penguin
Let's make the record straight.
There's "carefully examining", and then there's repeating what Symph and Chand had already said except in a rather Richardy fashion.
My bone of contention was that you were being a Richard. Even more contentious was what I saw as an apparent lack of similar levels of contribution to NESing (key word being apparent) *combined* with said Richardness.
In other words, you can "carefully analyse" all you want without being a hori about it. And if you want to, there really is no need to because Chand and Symph had already outlined it prior.
As I said before, no one likes a dick.
There's "carefully examining", and then there's repeating what Symph and Chand had already said except in a rather Richardy fashion.
My bone of contention was that you were being a Richard. Even more contentious was what I saw as an apparent lack of similar levels of contribution to NESing (key word being apparent) *combined* with said Richardness.
In other words, you can "carefully analyse" all you want without being a hori about it. And if you want to, there really is no need to because Chand and Symph had already outlined it prior.
As I said before, no one likes a dick.
