Prince AI is pathetic

[mzprox]

I did not expect wonderful performance from the AI, but it is really really bad..
Doesn't aware at all of iminent invasion, not even after getting denounced and enemy units sighted, doesn't build any capable defenders. Ok, the AI doesn't have production bonus, but if the player can build many attacker units so could the AI, but apart from some warriors and chariots here and there I haven't seen a serious attempt to stop their own annihilation.
Recently I showed civ4 to my friend and started a game for him at warlord difficulty (below noble), and in that game the ai was quite capable.. here prince is a pushover..
Here is hoping that the ai gets optimized further with patches, but so far I'm dissapointed.

 

[Balkans]

Yea, the only thing that really disappointed, AI has like zero defense. I watched one of Filthy's games, he took half of continent with 3 archers i think... kinda looks bad. I mean AI don't realize that it has no defense and that it could easily lose it's capitol? What about some next level AI needed for more complicated decisions? It's quite problematic, but to be honest, it was a long shot to expect upgraded AI ...

 

[Haggbart]

From what I've seen the AI looks better than CiV in regards to unit movement, but simply build too few units and fail to upgrade them. That should be relatively easy to fix.

 

[Plus Ultra]

Pathetic, is it? I see.

Could you please elaborate? I'm interested in understanding how you've reached this surprising conclusion without playing a single game yourself.

 

[Ryika]

The lack of units is certainly worrying.

 

[mzprox]

Pathetic, is it? I see.

Could you please elaborate? I'm interested in understanding how you've reached this surprising conclusion without playing a single game yourself.

By watching 3-4 gameplays so far. Even if it was the first play for the human player, even with bad start.. just by sending a few units to the ai and declaring war the ai empires have fallen with little to no resistance. I call that pathetic.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

Yep it looks really weak at Prince. As mentioned, Filthy randomly took capital with 3 archers. What is worse, he took it from Teddy, who had declared joint war with Harald against him couple turns ago. Non of them came with any units, and Teddy had like 1 warrior and 1 slinger when Filthy attacked.

And Teddy had 1 city size 4 at that time (and an unescorted settler wandering around). I have no idea what was Teddy doing/building up to that point (he had Holy Site to be fair).

So it seems that AI will need massive bonuses on higher difficulties.

EDIT: And this is how AI protects its builders. Even thought barbs are also AI

Spoiler :

 

[qadams]

Yep it looks really weak at Prince. As mentioned, Filthy randomly took capital with 3 archers. What is worse, he took it from Teddy, who had declared joint war with Harald against him couple turns ago. Non of them came with any units, and Teddy had like 1 warrior and 1 slinger when Filthy attacked.

And Teddy had 1 city size 4 at that time (and an unescorted settler wandering around). I have no idea what was Teddy doing/building up to that point (he had Holy Site to be fair).

So it seems that AI will need massive bonuses on higher difficulties.

I agree. The barbs seem much stronger and smarter in Civ 6, but the other Civs are not good at all at defending themselves. It feels almost like Settler level.

 

[Plus Ultra]

By watching 3-4 gameplays so far. Even if it was the first play for the human player, even with bad start.. just by sending a few units to the ai and declaring war the ai empires have fallen with little to no resistance. I call that pathetic.

I must've missed those gameplays. Could you point me to the biggest offender please?

One in which a human player with a bad start sends a few units to the ai and conquers it with no resistance.

 

[mzprox]

I must've missed those gameplays. Could you point me to the biggest offender please?

One in which a human player with a bad start sends a few units to the ai and conquers it with no resistance.

I had Quill's twitch in mind where his capital had very bad production and he also had bad luck with brabarians, but then He took over his neighbours with little effort eventually from land and from sea.

 

[happybjorn]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions based off of early gameplay videos. AI is one of the last things to be started, let alone completed (balancing is usually one of the last things to get finished as well).

The build is probably several weeks old, if not more (its not like they were going to send it out without testing it thoroughly).

But there are plenty of (other) reasons to expect the AI to be terrible.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

I must've missed those gameplays. Could you point me to the biggest offender please?

One in which a human player with a bad start sends a few units to the ai and conquers it with no resistance.

We just did, Filthy's Rome game. It's not an extremely bad start, but it doesn't matter, what matters is really awful play on Teddy's part. He has no cities no units, declares war, still doesn't build any units and loses to Filthy's 3 archers with no resistance. If Filthy was more experienced in this game and wanted to, he'd have won domination by turn 50 easily.

I am the last person who wants to criticize this game, but that really felt like Settler difficulty to me. But I have never played below Emperor before, so I might not be the right guy to judge.

 

[spfun]

It was known months ago with the first game footage that the AI is awful. Its a shame but not unexpected. Just play on Immortal/Deity to give the AI some cheats to help it.

 

[mzprox]

I'm just watching Quill's rome play.. ok against legion an AI without iron will be in trouble, should build many archers or something, but the real problem is that it took Quill some time to bombard the walls, get to all the cities, but the AI seemingly hasn't even tried to defend by building new units (talking about Spain btw).
An other thing: there was a goody hut just two steps from Barcelona in the ADs already.. it had to be visible just by the borders, and the AI hasn't picked it up.

 

[Siptah]

We just did, Filthy's Rome game. It's not an extremely bad start, but it doesn't matter, what matters is really awful play on Teddy's part. He has no cities no units, declares war, still doesn't build any units and loses to Filthy's 3 archers with no resistance. If Filthy was more experience in this game and wanted to, he'd have won domination by turn 50 easily.

I am the last person who wants to criticize this game, but that really felt like Settler difficulty to me. But I have never played below Emperor before, so I might not be the right guy to judge.

I've played on quite some games on Prince in CiV when I tried out of the box strategies. The AI wasn't that bad when it comes to building units. It's just slower than you would be and can't use it properly, but it usually has some contemporary units. And it does the 'amass units, declare war and go all in on one city' thing, too, if you are too weak. So civvi's Prince seems way easier. I read about that in some article as well.
But maybe this time AI difficulty is not just about bonus/malus but also about what they build and how they use citizens? Maybe in such a case, Prince AI is without bonus and on 'dumb', while king AI might be dumb with bonus, Emperor might be smart without bonus and so on

 

[Danzo_87]

If prince is the new lowest difficulty setting, then it makes sense I think, although I never tried the settler difficulty in 5 so cannot compare between them

 

[zocki]

Don't realy thinks its just an AI problem. Especially when looking at the Rome gameplays the issue for me is how unbalanced UI are. No limits, better access thanks to less interconnected techtree and something like 4 legion can easily steamroll your opponents cities.

 

[mzprox]

If only spain had built half as many units as Brussel city-state

 

[cazaderonus]

To be fair, prince difficulty in CiV is also insanely bad. But it had the perk of having cities being capable of defending themselves right when they're settled. So you couldnt go in with a couple of units and take them.

But if CiV had had the same defense system as in VI aka weak defense and no bombardment until building walls, it would have been the exact same result.

 

[Ryika]

True, but that only shows that the AI is not prepared for the new set of rules. Unless it's intentional for some reason that the player can win the game by basically producing some units at the start of the game on that difficulty the AI needs to have a priority on having a basic army around.

It also shows a complete lack of reaction to the situation it it finds itself in. No units are being produced, no units are being upgraded... that's problems that will persist on higher difficulties, even with production bonuses.