Pyramids or Sun Tzu's

[Ansar]

If you have an SGL, which do you choose?

I generally don't have the choice, but free barracks definitely seem nicer than free granaries

What do y'all think?

 

[Lanzelot]

Depends on so many things...
(For example, if I'm well-advanced, so that I can build Sun Tzu's manually with no risk, while the Pyramids are almost finished in a distant land, I'll take the Pyramids, of course.
However, if a close by neighbor has the Pyramids almost finished for me, there's no need to waste a precious SGL on it... )

But in general the Pyramids are the most powerful wonder. A granary is useful in every city, barracks only in those cities which produce units.
But it also depends on the chosen victory condition and on how many units you will still produce. In a peaceful science game, the Pyramids are better. The small army that you need, can be produced in a handful dedicated towns with barracks. In a violent Domination/Conquest game, Sun Tzu's may be more powerful, because your units can heal and be upgraded directly at the front line.

 

[Diviner]

For me it is a no brainer - I would always build the Sun Tzu. Those barracks will come handy in the more distant lands as you conquer more and more territories. Your units can instantly heal in the frontline cities! You can upgrade anywhere and pump out better units in faraway lands. I have never experienced the great effect of the granaries either, in my opinion tile development around the city is more important for growth.

Usually I don't have the choice though because even if I acquire an SGL all the AA wonders are built by the AIs

 

[Opies]

If i get an SGL and pyramids is not built I would rush that, and then pre-build for sun-tzu's

 

[EvilConqueror]

Always Sun Tzu's. It is more useful for my violent style of play.

 

[kulade]

I'm kind of surprised that so many people would build Sun Tzu's. I typically only produce military units in several cities, so barracks would be useless in most of them, conversely every city could use a granary for most of the game. Also important is that granaries cost more that barracks to build, and the Pyramids deal out more culture than the Art of War. Of course if you think you have a shot at building one, build the less costly Pyramids and rush the AoW.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Lanzelot, as usual, gives very solid advice.

If the Pyramids are still available when Sun Tzu's becomes available, I'd take the Pyramids. I can usually build Sun Tzu's when it becomes available, but the Pyramids competes with early game expansion and I usually can't spare the time from building more cities. That said, the Pyramids are usually built by the time I can build Sun Tzu.

A consideration might be traits. If you're Militaristic, barracks are cheaper. Also, consider your settling pattern. If you pack your cities tightly, granaries aren't worth as much. I usually space my cities out a little, so granaries are worth more to me than someone who uses CxxC spacing.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

I prefer Sun Tzu

 

[Lanzelot]

If you're Expansionist, granaries are cheaper.

Are you sure about this? I just played the Portugese (COTM74), and I think the granaries were the usual 60 shields.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Are you sure about this? I just played the Portugese (COTM74), and I think the granaries were the usual 60 shields.

Edited my post. Thanks. I think my memory is failing. Haven't played Expansionist for a while.

 

[Turner]

I'm kind of surprised that so many people would build Sun Tzu's. I typically only produce military units in several cities, so barracks would be useless in most of them, conversely every city could use a granary for most of the game. Also important is that granaries cost more that barracks to build, and the Pyramids deal out more culture than the Art of War. Of course if you think you have a shot at building one, build the less costly Pyramids and rush the AoW.

Both are useful, and it really depends on the situation before you can choose one over the other. There are advantages to having a granary in each city, but there's also the advantage of having barracks in each captured city to heal your units faster. If I'm in my warmongering mode, I'd probably go with Sun Tzu's and plan on taking the city with the Pyramids.

 

[EvilConqueror]

Both are useful, and it really depends on the situation before you can choose one over the other. There are advantages to having a granary in each city, but there's also the advantage of having barracks in each captured city to heal your units faster. If I'm in my warmongering mode, I'd probably go with Sun Tzu's and plan on taking the city with the Pyramids.

That reminded me of another point. Often it may be easier to capture the Pyramids because Sun Tzu is going to give the AI all elite units which are going to heal quicker.

 

[Desertsnow]

Well, I've always been fond of the Pyramids, but building such an early wonder is not easy. If I do have an SGL at the right time, I'll build the Pyramids, but if building without help I would rather build Sun Tzu's.

 

[Opies]

in my current game I just got an SGL off philo and built pyramids, then got an SGL off of feudalism which was my free tech (scientific) for sun tzu's

talk about luck and timing

 

[Pacioli]

Pyramids for me. In my limited experience, I've played many games without Sun Tzu's. However, I've played few games without the Pyramids.

 

[Calis]

I can think of almost no situation, where I would not chose the Pyramids. They are in my opinion the most useful wonder in the game. I can build a barracks in a border city, if I need one, or capture Sun Tsu later from an AI.

On rather small maps, Pyramids seem less beneficial, but the same would be true for Sun Tsu.

 

[Bartleby]

^I can't put it better than that.

 

[Snarkhunter]

I wouldn't build either. I'd hold out for Leo's instead, generally. That would change if I were in a war & wanted to generate MGL's, clearly. Otherwise, cheap upgrades figure prominently in my military strategies & Leo's is more useful to me than granaries or 'raxes.

Would also depend if I was going for 20k or 100k. Then I'd look for a wonder with plenty of culture attached to it.

For pyramids or Sun Tzu's, I look to capture instead.

kk

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Pyramids- useful in more cities (farms, corrupt cities away from fighting)

 

[juiceums]

Depends...

If you are in a war you should get Sun Tzu for the veteran units at barracks and the ability for upgrading.

But if you have no need for veterans you build pyramids for extra food.

Or if you are really good just build both!