question about republic

[kirie]

i have reading for quite a while and somepeople say that republic good for early before changing into democracy. but when i try it it seem really bad for early goverment. first of all unit support cost 2 gold, the benefit only less corruption which is unnecessary because early in the game you only have small territory and even you have huge territory normally all city are town, because of massive settler production. and other bonus was +1 for everytiile that already give +1

I normally go for monarch, but after trying for republic it suddenly give -60gold, clearly +1commerce and corruption doesnt help. latter in the game democracy clearly better

so just wondering how you maintain the expense caused by unit support, i like going war early in the game.

 

[Bartleby]

You need to have a certain amount of infrastructure for Rebublic. Make sure all your worked tiles have roads; build markets in high commerce towns and courthouses in "outer core" towns.
Obviously a good way to increase unit support is to build or capture more towns.
If you like early war, see if you can get the AI to declare on you so you can get War Happiness.

In the late game, there is actually very little benefit from changing to Democracy.

edit: and, Welcome to CFC!

 

[Mursi lives]

When I get republic i usually turn off my research and boost my growth by cash-rushing workers (sometimes settlers) in my corrupt towns. Workers dont only improve tiles, they also populate core cities, drastically increasing commerce. The 'republic' tech also have a huge trade value, huge enough to get the remaining non-optional AA techs while the research is off.

IOW, dont wait for a bigger empire to revolt, revolt to get a bigger empire.

and even you have huge territory normally all city are town, because of massive settler production.

That let me think you dont specialize your towns enough. Are you familiar with the concept of 'settler factory'?

 

[Raliuven]

Also depends on your playing style. I have the same trouble with republic. I am too much of a warmonger for it to work for me. It can work with a lot of luxuries, but that's another discussion. If you like having a large army standing around, then monarchy will probably serve you better. If you like 100 turn wars, then Monarchy will probably serve you better. If you have the skill to win a lighting quick war and force a surrender early, then republic can work very well. But this can be hard to balance because republic encourages a small army but demands a fast win. That can be tricky.

So, if you move to republic, watch those unit costs. Don't forget you can't use MPs anymore, so those old warriors and archers can be disbanded. They are just a 2 gpt drain on your treasury.

 

[Ataxerxes]

For best use in republic, you get a lot more unit support from cities of size 7 or more. Not getting MP has it's good points, too. Don't garrison the towns in the middle of your empire. All military should be either protecting border towns or preparing to invade. However, there is a caveat to this. If you have ungarrisoned towns, DON'T GIVE RIGHT OF PASSAGE!

Also, think about if Democracy is worth it. I'm a converted Democraholic. For me, unit costs come out about the same (1 per excess unit instead of 2, but fewer free units). War weariness now becomes a real issue. I think Democracy is the best economic government, but I also think it isn't worth 2 optional techs and extra anarchy.

If you're getting killed by unit upkeep in Republic, I don't think Democracy will help this problem.

 

[Desertsnow]

I usually go with the Monarchy-Communism path nowadays (I do a lot more early fighting than I used to), but as for Republic, you need to have a good economic structure (markets and roads, as Bartleby said), but if you do have it, then your economy will be far better off than under Despotism. Without MP, you'll need to manage happiness by other means, preferably with the slider or by acquiring luxury resources, rather than by building happiness-building city improvements, unless the city or your empire needs the cultural value (and don't build all of them, and especially avoid the colosseum, unless you're actually aiming for a cultural victory).

War-weariness can be problematic, especially if you are the aggressor; you'll have to organize your military well, so that your wars are short and decisive. This means that you'll probably also want to avoid buying into any alliances or MPPs that are liable to get you into trouble.

 

[Snarkhunter]

I

War-weariness can be problematic, especially if you are the aggressor; you'll have to organize your military well, so that your wars are short and decisive. This means that you'll probably also want to avoid buying into any alliances or MPPs that are liable to get you into trouble.

Depends on your definition of "short". 20 turn wars are easily doable in Republic & there are very few AI's I can't get a handle on in 20 turns. 40 turn active wars are not impossible. 100 turn passive wars are also possible (ie, war is declared but the AI can't really get to you, so there is no fighting). You don't have to take down an AI in one war; war for a specific set of objectives & if the AI is still alive at the end, make peace if war weariness is a problem. Arguably, leaving an AI alive is better anyhow; you can't extort techs from a vanished civ.

kk

 

[kirie]

@bartleby
thx, market only increasing happiness right, normally if I only got 1 or 2 luxuries I dont want to build it(except for few core city), but if I close to bank I normally will start build it in city with a lot of commerce

@Mursi lives
ny settler factory you means floodplains city right, from 4 game I only got 1 game where my city close to flood plain, thats good because I can get settler every 4-6 turn other two will help by building spearman or warrior to support that settler. but it happend rarely

@desertsnow
I also using communism but really, normally if I see I have really huge teritory.

 

[Raliuven]

Marketplaces are always good in cities with reasonable leaves of corruption or if they are going to grow larger than size 6 (to a degree). Basically, you get the increased happiness for luxuries and a boost to gold production. That is the best win-win in the game IMO. Basically, if the town is creating a nice amount of gold, I will build a marketplace there. I don't build them in all non-corrupt cities, however. At least not right away. Sometimes you have those coastal towns that can't really grow past 4-5 (or less) and only pull in a handful of gold and shields each round. I don't build a marketplace there. Might as well turn out another galley.

There are lots of ways to build a settler factory. Floodplains, particulary a floodplain with wheat is a good way to get one started so long as you have a good source of shields nearby (floodplains = no shields). The goal is to have +5 fpt each round and enough shields to pick up the 30 shields in 4 turns necessary to produce a settler - but no more (or not much more). A 6-7 sheild growth cycle with an extra 2 shield site to pick up along the way when growing to 6 and 7 population is an optimal approach.

However, wheat on grassland and cows on grassland have the same potential (only a floodplain with wheat can beat them). The nice thing about floodplains is that there are usually a few close to each other. Otherwise you need to find a location that has access to two food bonuses (wheat, grapes, cows, game) and irrigation. Bottom line, get to +5fpt and you can usually create a settler factory, or at least a worker factory.

 

[nvm]

How many cities do you take in a "quick" war? I somehow can`t stop the war until I totally wipe the enemy and all memory of him - these leaderheads refusing to acknowledge my victory are too annoying.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

I'm no expert but I usually have a plan or goal in mind for a war. Am I looking to expand by taking some size 2 or greater border cities, imporve security by wiping out a city or 2 that settled on "my" continent, take a wonder or gain control of a resource, weaken a rival or all out extermination. I try to set my units in place ready for a blitz and sue for peace before they get a good counter attack going once my goals are met and hope they don't "refuse to acknowlege" my overtures and that they don't get allies to gang up on me. Good use of bombarding units or fighting enemies with no iron/saltpeter/rubber helps avoid losses and therefore WW.

 

[rysingsun]

I normally go for monarch, but after trying for republic it suddenly give -60gold

I would be willing to bet that you build lots of defensive units. At higher difficulty levels it becomes increasingly impractical to do this, as the time to build is too long and the unit support is too great. So you build pretty much only offensive units and when you have enough for war you declare war. This in turn keeps the unit support problem in check.

 

[kirie]

@rysingsun
no I build a lot of offensive unit, getting defensive unit for war just insane. also if I have a lot of unit ai never seem to wage a war against me. because of that offensive always come first.

 

[Desertsnow]

@nvm It's possible to take a lot of cities. Besides, you're obviously doing well enough in your wars that you don't need to worry about war-weariness or other complications.

@kirie You might have too many units in general, then, and not enough cities in which to post them. The solution to that is to acquire more cities, by settlement, or if necessary, by war. But do build economic infrastructure, it really is all-important under any government. Build roads and markets; then later in the game, build railroads and banks.

 

[juiceums]

The governments i usually use are (after despotism) monarchy, then democracy. Seems to work good, i use monarchy because it seems to bring in more cash than republic.

 

[Raliuven]

The governments i usually use are (after despotism) monarchy, then democracy. Seems to work good, i use monarchy because it seems to bring in more cash than republic.

It really depends on what your infrastructure looks like. I tend to agree with you - I use Monarchy, but only because I love the high unit maintenance per city, use of MPs, lack of WW, and you get a nice crown.

If you are moving into Republic, it is important to know where all that money is going to come from - you need a decent population to work the tiles to gain increased income (so if you have been whipping your people to build widgets, you may have a problem). The worked tiles (generally) need to be improved so you can get the extra gold bonuses. You need to maintain only a reasonable sized army rather than making the Wehrmacht look like the Peace Corps. You also need to avoid WW to keep the gold flowing or have a lot of luxuries.

I usually have decent infrastructure and I don't like to whip. But I am addicted to MPs and I love seeing my units cover the board (they are so pretty).

I rarely switch out of Monarchy. By the time I think it might be worth it to stop beating on my neighbors, I decide it isn't worthy switching - unless I am religious.

 

[rysingsun]

@rysingsun
no I build a lot of offensive unit, getting defensive unit for war just insane. also if I have a lot of unit ai never seem to wage a war against me.

Well ok then, I like that much better! If it were me, I would just go to war. The ai fights wars so badly, so if you have plenty of offensive units, even though weaker than the ai, you can usually do quite well. You will pick up cities, which will increase your unit support. You will lose units, which will reduce your support needs. You will pick up luxuries, which will improve your cashflow. A win all around!

But then, I have always been known to be a warmonger. If you hate war that's a different story.

 

[Ataxerxes]

@rysingsun
no I build a lot of offensive unit, getting defensive unit for war just insane. also if I have a lot of unit ai never seem to wage a war against me. because of that offensive always come first.

Offensive units are better, absolutely. Building units helps the AI not want to wage war against you, but so do more offensive units. When the AI is sizing up your strength, it gives a lot more credit to offensive strength than defensive strength. Therefore, an archer 2-1-1 counts for more than a spearman 1-2-1 when the AI is sizing you up.

I war a lot in Republic. The key is knowing when to stop - when objectives are met (resources secured, etc.) or the AI is willing to cow down to my pointy-stick diplomacy. Use the period of peace to either regroup or go kill somebody else. Since I can't trust the AI at gracious (AI can still attack) I don't care if somebody hates my guts and is alive temporarily. Also, a real objective in early wars is to try to get an army. That's one of the human advantages. We use armies effectively. I think an effective AI army is a like a unicorn, a mythical beast.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

With republic, unit maintenanc is always going to be the toughest thing. Well, that and the weariness you get for USING that military

Ways you can help with that include getting cities to size 7 (using specialists if necessary), founding more cities,, roading everything to get the commerce bonus, building markets to multiply the commerce you get, building the forbidden palace to reduce corruption even more.

Ways to reduce weariness:

Get the AI to declare on you.
Get the AI to invade you and you beat up their stack in your land.
Never, ever, ever, lose a city.
bring enough units to take a city with the minimum amount of time.

 

[Desertsnow]

I can't trust the AI at gracious (AI can still attack) I don't care if somebody hates my guts and is alive temporarily..

Aye, never trust even a gracious AI further than you can throw it.