Random idea

[Psychic_Llamas]

8 schools for 8 wnds of magic. each college utilises a different power of elemental chaos. shyish is the wind of death, ghyran is the wind of life. it is a chaotic balance, you cannot have life without death. even if there were no college to harness shyish because ghyran arhcmages refused, there would still by untames shyish power running riot in the streets of the city. the colleges are needed to tame the winds. all the archamges from different colleges may dissagree with each other, but they would see each college as an important part of the balance of things.

thats the way i see it anyway.

 

[Humakty]

I have recently played DE, HE and Kurgan, and I was not able to found any colledge. I thought this option was reserved to Empire and similar civs.

 

[Ahriman]

Yes, it is; the Empire, Brettonia, Tilea, Estalia can all build colleges (any others?).

Chaos races and elves can get access to some Winds Magic without even needing the colleges; if you look at the upgrade paths for the Winds promotions, you will see that many them have a High Magic or Dark Magic or chaos magic requirement. So for example, you can get Light Magic 1 either by founding the college and upgrading to (or building) a heirophant, OR you can purchase the upgrade as a standard promotion with an elf mage with the High Magic 1 promotion.

As it stands, death and grey magic can be accessed with High, Dark or Chaos magic, and all the others only with High Magic. Personally I would change this to divide them up a bit more. So High Magic accesses Heavens, Lights, Life, Beasts, Dark Magic accesses Grey, Death, Fire, Metal, Chaos Magic accesses Fire, Death and Grey. Alternatively, let Chaos Magic access some Elemental magic promotions rather than Winds magic. Don't know if this makes any sense fluff-wise.

Wood elves can also learn high magic so also have access to the various Winds. Maybe Wood Elf Magic should also allow access to Life and Beast magic directly (ie Athel Loren I is a prereq for Jade Magic I and Amber Magic I)?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Wood elves can also learn high magic so also have access to the various Winds. Maybe Wood Elf Magic should also allow access to Life and Beast magic directly (ie Athel Loren I is a prereq for Jade Magic I and Amber Magic I)?

id much prefer it this way, Highmagic on Spell singers just isnt right...

as for chaos magic... they get 3 unique branches of magic, PLUS a whole array of awsome combat promotions (to still be implemented) gifted from Khorne, so i dont see the need for them to be able to access the winds or elements at all.

 

[Ahriman]

as for chaos magic... they get 3 unique branches of magic, PLUS a whole array of awsome combat promotions (to still be implemented) gifted from Khorne, so i dont see the need for them to be able to access the winds or elements at all.

+1. Chaos magic is good enough as it is, and I can see it getting expanded a bit further.

I'd still like dividing the winds up evenly between High/Dark though.
Makes sense with your fluff above on the 8 schools; human mages deal with all 8, high elves just deal with the good, dark elves with the bad.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

well actually HE on the table top can use all the winds of magic, seeing as they are the ones who actually started the colleges in Altdorf of the empire. the DE are just sadistic bastards and only like the winds that cause pain and suffering. so HE should get access to all winds, DE to Shyish (death) and Grey (Shadows) and Amber(all their billions of monsters), WE to Life (forests) Heavens (prophetesses and predictiond) and Amber (animals).

 

[Ahriman]

Fair enough, that sounds reasonable.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I think so too, as I've been sayin here.

 

[Ahriman]

More random ideas:
Can we implement a diplo penalty specifically between Lawful factions and followers of the Chaos religion? Seems like a faction embracing chaos voluntarily should immediately make its non-chaos neighbors hate them even more than normal.

I've noticed occasionally that units created have mutation, but its not entirely clear what causes this; I assumed it was something chaos related, but I've had it happen from a unit built in a city without the chaos religion or a chaos temple, when I was Salvation.

Temples should cost much more than they currently do (boosts value of weak spiritual trait), you should be unable to build temples not of your state religion, and temples should auto-raze on city conquest.
Temple of corruption should mutate any unit built in the city with 50% chance, add +2 research.
Temple of salvation could add "blessing" to any unit built in that city, blessing adds +10% strength, and provides extra +1 influence. Or possibly a stronger blessing that wears off after combat.
Ancestor gods temple could add hill attack/defence promotion to any units built in the city, add +1 gold and +10% city defence.
Temple of Spirituality could add extra +1 happy, and extra +20% to trade route value.
Temple of Elven gods could add +1 food (very helpful for those slow-growing elf cities) and +20% influence.
Temple of Destruction could add +1 xp to units built in the city, and provide +10% mil unit construction.
Temple of the Old Ones... no idea really. City maintenance bonus?

We need religion-specific units;
Maybe various demons for Chaos (the Horrors of Tzeentch are very weak atm for such a lategame unit - make them really cheap as something to throw at the enemy), maybe chaos furies as a strength 4 unit using Fighter aircraft scripts (something for pegasai etc. to intercept), requires temple of corruption.
Maybe a battle-priest for Salvation; requires priesthood, requires temple of salvation, strength 4, national limit 3, can use metals, gets 50% bonus vs demons, 50% death resistance, can cast cure disease.

 

[rocklikeafool]

On that note, here's a practical example. I was DE and the WEs and the HEs still loved me. Wat the hell?!!! They're both sposed to absolutely hate my f*ckin guts.

 

[Ahriman]

Yeah, often as dark elves the other elves are my closest allies. Should be perhaps a few race-specific diplo modifiers.

Bonus between:
Empire/dwarves
Bretonnia/Wood Elves

Penalty between
Dwarves/Greenskins
Tilea/Araby or Brettonnia/Araby.
Dark Elves/Other Elves

Some we don't need; Kislev/Empire will already be good friends because of same alignment/religion.
Would be good to get the Lawful diplobonus modifiers working though... they don't seem to be there most of the time.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Yeah, often as dark elves the other elves are my closest allies. Should be perhaps a few race-specific diplo modifiers.

Bonus between:
Empire/dwarves
Bretonnia/Wood Elves

Penalty between
Dwarves/Greenskins
Tilea/Araby or Brettonnia/Araby.
Dark Elves/Other Elves

Some we don't need; Kislev/Empire will already be good friends because of same alignment/religion.
Would be good to get the Lawful diplobonus modifiers working though... they don't seem to be there most of the time.

There was sposed to be some. I remember seein it somewhere. But I've not seen that implemented.

 

[Ahriman]

Another thought; maybe the offensive treesinging spell, and Fury of the Forest (and maybe some of the other Lore of Athel Loren spells) should only be castable while in forest.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Can we implement a diplo penalty specifically between Lawful factions and followers of the Chaos religion? Seems like a faction embracing chaos voluntarily should immediately make its non-chaos neighbors hate them even more than normal.

good idea.

I've noticed occasionally that units created have mutation, but its not entirely clear what causes this; I assumed it was something chaos related, but I've had it happen from a unit built in a city without the chaos religion or a chaos temple, when I was Salvation.

did you have warpstone at all?

Temple of corruption should mutate any unit built in the city with 50% chance, add +2 research.

much too high mutation rate. 2% is more then enough imho.

Temple of salvation could add "blessing" to any unit built in that city, blessing adds +10% strength, and provides extra +1 influence. Or possibly a stronger blessing that wears off after combat.

i like that.

Ancestor gods temple could add hill attack/defence promotion to any units built in the city, add +1 gold and +10% city defence.

i wonder if its at all possible to ass in war happyness if its against a faction that you were previously at war with? indicating the grudge theme...

Temple of Spirituality could add extra +1 happy, and extra +20% to trade route value.

dosnt really make much sense. why trade?..

Temple of Elven gods could add +1 food (very helpful for those slow-growing elf cities) and +20% influence.

thats not a bad idea.

Temple of Destruction could add +1 xp to units built in the city, and provide +10% mil unit construction.

as well as influence.

Temple of the Old Ones... no idea really. City maintenance bonus?

grant any spellcaster that moves through the city a temporary bonus to spell damage, and possibly also +1 gold and influence.

-----------------------

Another thought; maybe the offensive treesinging spell, and Fury of the Forest (and maybe some of the other Lore of Athel Loren spells) should only be castable while in forest.

that was the original intention for all those spells, but the code to do that didnt work for me. i might take another look into that in my next version of minimod.

 

[Ahriman]

did you have warpstone at all?

Hmm. Quite possibly, didn't think of that.

Note that the intention for all the temples is that they all give +1 happy, +1 influence *and* these bonus effects.

much too high mutation rate. 2% is more then enough imho.

Is this a 2% per turn for any units sitting in a city with a temple of corruption? If so, fine.
But if its just 2% (once) for any unit built in a city with the temple, thats way too low. That only gives you one mutation per 50 units on average. Lame. Most games I barely have 50 units in total.

i wonder if its at all possible to ass in war happyness if its against a faction that you were previously at war with? indicating the grudge theme...

Possibly. The game does have to keep track of who was at war with whom in the diplomacy code, for the "you declared war on us" . Actually, I think it would be even more in-theme to only get the bonus for factions who declared war on *you*, you don't get a grudge for factions who merely tried to resist your invasion. Dwarves don't tend to launch offensive wars against people who haven't pissed them off.
So you create a "grudge" variable with each enemy faction that starts =0 . When an enemy declares war on you, the grudge variable becomes =1. When you make a peace treaty, and grudge variables that =1 become =2. Grudges that =0 are unaffected.
When you are at war with a faction whose grudge with you =2, you get +1happy from all your Temple of Ancestors for each grudge=2 faction you are at war with.
Also, while on subject, dwarf catapult should be replaced with Grudge thrower, make it 6/2.

dosnt really make much sense. why trade?..

No good reason really.... was trying to think of something that India, Arabia, China and Japan might have in common. Trade routes was about all I could think of.

as well as influence.

Mil prod bonus and XP is a pretty big bonus already; they get 1 influence from the temple, I wouldn't give a bonus beyond that.

grant any spellcaster that moves through the city a temporary bonus to spell damage, and possibly also +1 gold and influence.

You could have a promotion that gives bonus spell damage that is granted to any spellcaster who is in the city at the start of the turn or enters the city, and is removed on casting a spell.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Possibly. The game does have to keep track of who was at war with whom in the diplomacy code, for the "you declared war on us" . Actually, I think it would be even more in-theme to only get the bonus for factions who declared war on *you*, you don't get a grudge for factions who merely tried to resist your invasion. Dwarves don't tend to launch offensive wars against people who haven't pissed them off.
So you create a "grudge" variable with each enemy faction that starts =0 . When an enemy declares war on you, the grudge variable becomes =1. When you make a peace treaty, and grudge variables that =1 become =2. Grudges that =0 are unaffected.

excelent thats exactly what i was thinking.

 

[Ahriman]

And add a diplopenalty for all races that the dwarves have a Grudge = 2 with, so the AI is more likely to have wars with them. "We cannot forgive you for the wrongs you have committed against us."

 

[Ahriman]

Quote:
Another thought; maybe the offensive treesinging spell, and Fury of the Forest (and maybe some of the other Lore of Athel Loren spells) should only be castable while in forest.
that was the original intention for all those spells, but the code to do that didnt work for me. i might take another look into that in my next version of minimod.

Shouldn't there be code available that already does this? Think of the Summon Sand Lion sun magic spell in FFH, can only be cast while caster is in desert. Is the issue that forest is a terrain object/improvement rather than base terrain type?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Shouldn't there be code available that already does this? Think of the Summon Sand Lion sun magic spell in FFH, can only be cast while caster is in desert. Is the issue that forest is a terrain object/improvement rather than base terrain type?

yep, i had thought of that, but because forests are a 'feature' rather than a 'base terrain' i couldnt get the code to work, i tried, but im obviously not python-wise enough yet

 

[Ahriman]

Well, sadly I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag, so... I'm no help really.
But I try to limit my suggestions for this mod to things that *feel* not too hard to code.