RBC12D - Fall of Rome - Vandals (Demigod)

Originally posted by Rubberjello
...We have very little need for money in this scenario except for using it to buy the more traditional techs.

The only use is an instant pillager horde by upgrading raiders. It is expensive but well worth the effort. And later on, cash comes handy for upgrading to warlords. Maps worth a lot in this scenario. it is possible to make up to 1000g or its equivalent in techs from map brokering during the first turn.
 
Don't forget that the Romans and Sassanids have no interest in the barbarian techs (set that way using the Flavor feature in the editor). I guess it would work to research conventional techs and trade them to the non-Romans for the barbarian techs, but that seems really risky and a good way to lose out on Scourge of God.
 
Chief RJ came to power in Vandal tribe through a rigorous and thorough leader-shaping process. (He was the winner of the "Most Head Lice" contest in last fall's Belch-o-rama. He placed a disappointing third in the "Worst Teeth Contest", btw) Despite these imminent qualifications, the previous tribal chief, J-2, did not relinquish power willingly. It was only after he suffered a humiliating defeat at the Flatulence Finals (an event where the *worst* seats were in the front row!), that he relinquished leadership to RJ and retired to one of the new settlements, hoping that his people will discover Sculpting soon and at least put up a fancy pigeon-attractor statue of him in honor of him being the founder of the Vandal homeland.

Once secure in his seat of power (which pretty much consisted of a moss-covered rock in a small meadow in the high-class neighborhood of the Vandal capital - e.g. upwind!), RJ looked around the new kingdom and was mightily pleased. The people were breeding like rabbits who heisted a Viagra shipment. The land was fertile, but roads were desperately needed to speed the movement of these prolific breeders to even more new lands.

The wise men (who in Vandal society were generally considered "shirkers", draft dodgers, or even far worse - Reservists in the Texas National Guard ;) )* - but usually knew some blackmail secrets against almost everyone, so no one spoke against them), were researching a concept called "Pillaging". Many had their doubts about their progress when it was discovered they were trying to arm warriors with goose-down pillows. The resulting snowstorm of feathers literally darkened the sky over the training ground. After that, they tried a more extreme form of the traditional vandalism, which for some unaccountable reason they were very, very good at. Every piece of gold we give to these wimpy freeloaders is much begrudged, but they keep promising that "the next thing we give you will be great! Big! Huge!" Yeah, right!

352 (1) Syracuse(Raider->Migrant) I make the social circuit, and got promptly kicked out of the three decent establishments (Sass, E. Rome, and W Rome), but not before getting some gold for our maps. Our boorish cousins had nothing to interesting to offer.

354 (2) Hippo(Barracks->Raider) Cagliera(Raider->Migrant) Got *rudely* kicked out of the same 3 good places (after snagging some of those free BBQ weinies first). I try to mooch off our lousy neighbors, but they were serving only rancid bear meat and leftover horse apples. The Sassinids offered us more criminal labor. We had to pass because the first set were still learning which end of the shovel to dig with.

356 (3) Cartannae->(Raider->Raider) They wouldn't even let me in the front door at the hoity-toity establishments. I had to go to the servant's entrance to sell my maps! Oh!!!! They'll get theirs---big time. The Franks somehow snagged Math. I'll wait for a 2-fer opportunity.

358 (4) Lilybaum(Barracks->Migrant) Most of our populace celebrates because Furs become available. This beats the heck out of me, because I was under the impression we were walking around in furs all this time in the first place? Maybe they figured out how to fumigate them to get the bugs out? On the Diplo walkabout, we managed to hire some Eastern Roman convicts for an exhorbitant price (125 gold). The Anglo Saxons wanted to get rid of some undesireables also and kicked in 6 gold for Horseback Riding.

360 (5) Syracuse(Migrant->Migrant) Zucchabar(Barracks->Migrant) Not much new on the begging circuit, but sold maps as usual.

362 (6) Hippo(Raider->Raider) Aleria(Migrant->Migrant) Uhmmmm. These last two years passed in a total fog. Must have been some of those mushroooms I found in the forest.

364 (7) The Vandal plague...errrr...I mean tribe, expands greatly these two years. Panormos is founded upon the Eastern river between two Cows. Sabratha is founded between some more furs and Horses (where the ground has a very strange looking red dot?) The Visigoths kick out all their undesireable elements (hair stylists, phone hygeiniests, dog therapists, etc.) and we give them Shipping. Western Rome also has heard of these strange Vandal's prediliction for buying other societies' dregs, and cashes in before we can come to our senses. (122 gold to them)

366 (8) Hippo (Raider->Raider) Saldae (Barracks->Raider) Rusicade(Raider->Worker) Cagliera(Migrant->Migrant) The Franks have learned Writing also. They might be a good trading partner once Pillaging is in play.

368 (9) Our lazy-butt wise men declare that we have learned "Pillaging". It turns out Pillaging is just like Vandalism, except you have to fill out more forms and declare your income at the end of every year. Their next project they are calling "Barbarian Leadership" - which sounds suspicously like they want to replace me. Hmmmm.... (Due in 12) Syracuse(Migrant->Palace prebuild for Scourge). Lilybauem(Migrant->Raider)

370 (10) Hippo (Raider->Raider) Zucchabar(Migrant->Raider) Cartennae(Migrant->Raider) Cirta is founded to the SW along river and with a cow. Hadrumemtum is also founded to the West with a River and Game. After a mere 20 years, RJ lost his Tribal Leadership (and his head) in a strange sword-sharpening accident. (Strange in that he was surrouned by wise men at the time, and shortly after he announced that he was going to cut their funding).


Per the variant rules - Accept no more workers from Western Rome, Eastern Rome, Anglos, Visigoths, and the Sassinids. Barbarian Leadership due in 10. We have an exclusive on Pillaging still. We can trade it to the Franks for Math and Writing, but everybody else is broke. Our Iron is almost hooked up. Our rapid expansion phase is almost over??? 2 Migrants are headed to the North, and another towards the SE Iron.

The Game (370AD)

*This is in jest. I have the highest respect for the National Guardsman. I was just poking fun at the latest U.S. presidential flap.
 
RJ, great turns, and enteraining writeup, as usual. Looks like our growth sped up Pillaging enough, and the Franks must have took a research detour. Up to the next leader, but I think we need to cash in on Pillaging with the Franks at least, as if not, with those two techs they will get it the instant someone else does, and then we are left out. Math was one of our desired techs for cats, and Writing is needed for embassies (alliances, anyone?). If we wait too long, and one of the other barbs gets Pillaging, we will miss out.

In fact, we may not be too far from lining up some of our unruly neighbors against the Romes. (Careful, I think we still have 5-6 turns left on a gpt payment first). Pillaging might be enough to convince some of them to attack (the infamous "Let's you and him fight" technique),while we take our time building forces and upgrading. This should bleed off some of their offensive forces, and then, when we're ready, we can move in for the kill. If we wait for our fellow barbarians to start the war first, they may be confused and attack north instead of south . . . :( it might be worth it to point them in the right direction? I haven't played this conquest before, I'm not sure how Rome-focused the AI barbs are.

*Glad you put the asterisk in, as I've been in the Guard going on 18 years! I do agree the whole episode has been blown completely out of proportion! After all, I was in 2nd grade in 1972, and I doubt I could still find my report cards, much less prove I was there every day.... ;)
 
Originally posted by Justus II
...I haven't played this conquest before, I'm not sure how Rome-focused the AI barbs are. ...

It is hard so say. They belong to the same cultural group and are polite by default and very tolerant to each other. Rome is huge and scary in the beginning. When they grow some muscle and military, around turn 70, they are more eager to fight Rome. Some minor wars in between barbarian tribes are inevitable because of limited territory. Especially aggessive are franks, anglo-sax, and visigoths because their breathing space is limited. Hunns, ostrogoths, and celts are more or less expanding almost till the end of the game or 100-110 turns. Sassanids are very unwilling to fight Rome in any case.
 
I have the file and will play it out this evening (after work some time).

I agree we should trade Pillaging for Math and Writing, so I will make that first priority. I'll try and focus on Embassy building and seeing if anyone is interested in allying against Rome. Not sure if we want to pull the trigger on that yet, but we should start to see if it is at least an option.
 
Doc: if they won't have you here, the Ostrogoths are still looking for one or two more players. You could pick it up right away, too ;).

(end thread hijack)
 
Doc,
We'd be glad to have you! As we're still in our first round, you haven't missed anything yet, I will slot you in after Akots. At our current pace, that should mean you will see our first Warlords (assuming we finish SoG in about 20). :hammer:
 
Inherited Turn, 370 AD: As we agreed, I start by trading Pillaging to the Franks for Math, Writing, and 1 Gold. Only 29 Gold in the bank, with -6 per turn. I’m going to hold off on creating and embassies until I am sure the Scourge of God is wrapped up. So full speed toward Barbarian Leadership!

372 AD: Saldae: Raider->Catapult. Let’s try out these new-fangled contraptions we just figured out how to make from the Franks. Aleria: Worker->Barracks. Byzantines are building Justinian’s Leadership. 1 Gold for WM (Sassanids) and I sell Contact with the Celts to the Visigoths for 20 Gold. Same to the Anglo-Saxons for 30 Gold. Guess they haven’t bothered to sail over to England to meet the Celts! No one else has enough money to make trading worthwhile. Up to 74 Gold now, so I think I will go ahead and establish an embassy and see what the offer of Pillaging will do for us. Visigoths are close so I get the embassy with them. There capital is a pathetic 1 pop city with 5 spearmen inside, and gold and iron resources coming in. They are building a sixth spearman. Pillaging will get a ROP agreement out of them, but they “would never accept” a military alliance. I think they are too weak still. We’ll have to enlist them as allies later.

Scout east trying to find the Huns. Send several workers to Syracuse to help add mines to speed up the SoG prebuild. Three inherited Migrants spread out to found new cities on the open eastern side of our kingdom.

374 AD: Hippo Regus: Raider->Pillager. Already have a barracks there in the capital, so we can pump out veterans. Zuccabar and Lilybauem also start Pillagers; same thinking. 4 Gold from Sassanids for WM; 15 Gold from Celts for contact with Ostrogoths; 3 Gold from each half of Rome for WM. Every else has 7 gold or less… Found Ammaedara (near Furs in far NE).

376 AD: Cagliari: Migrant->Barracks. Western Rome now starting Justinian’s Leadership. That does mean they have Heavy Cavalry now! Barbarian Leadership in just 6 turns now. We gained a turn. Cartennae: Raider->Pillager. Rusicade: Worker->Worker. Maybe I should build some spears for cheap MP; we have cities growing that will need entertainers. I found New Carthage (SE) and New Hippo Regus (NE). I’m not building any more migrants; we are at 16 cities for now.

378 AD: Pretty quiet.

380 AD: Pick up 12 Gold from WM trades. Finally reach the outskirts of Hun territory! I sent another south down to keep an eye on the Romans to our south. Barbarian Leadership down to 4 turns. Quiet turn otherwise.

382 AD: Saldaea: Catapult->Pillager. Starting to chop trees near Syracuse to build even more shields there. We have an extra furs now. Also communications with the Huns (which even Eastern Rome lacks). Going to see what we can work in a deal. Agggh! I see now why the turns to Barbarian Leadership have been dropping (down to 2 turns now). The Huns have it! They will trade it for communications with 3 civs (even the 3 closest to them), plus give us 20 gold. Do I save us two turns here? Doesn’t really matter; it all comes down to the prebuild. But they will get Communications with these guys sooner to later anyway. I might as well accelerate our research while I can.

So I go ahead and get Barbarian Leadership. 21 turns to Scourge of God in Syracuse. I’ve got 7 workers chopping trees nearby. Can they chop fast enough??? Oh, and just 11 turns now to Sacking. We pocket 80 more gold finishing selling Communications with the Huns (144 in the treasury now). That one explorer of ours to the east paid off handsomely. I hold on to the furs for now.

384 AD: Panormus: Raider->Raider. 6-8 Sassanid horseman seen out in the eastern steppe near the Huns. Sabratha: Worker->Worker. Sassanids now have Heavy Cavalry (they have Justinian’s Leadership underway). Settle with my final migrant, New Tingis in the foothills to the south. Have enough cash to build another embassy. Choose the Anglo-Saxons. Kiel is a 4 city with 6 spearmen and a migrant being built. 2 horses and 1 fur coming in as resources. No one interested in an alliance; even for an offer of 3 techs.

386 AD: Our scout north of Aquinicum just saw a Roman heavy cavalry leave that city headed east.

388 AD: Still a lot of Sassanid activity in the steppe. Zucchabar and Hippo Regus: Pillager->Pillager. We have some fighters! Rusicade: Worker->Worker. Scourge of God down to 15 turns after merging in one workers and chopping. I trade the furs for wine and 15 gold to Eastern Rome; it gives us an extra luxury all around that our cities need. Another fur to trade should come online soon if we want to trade that for tech.

390 AD: Aleria: Barracks->Spearman. Handing this off with 14 turns to Scourge of God. Plenty of workers around Syrcause; someone might be able micromanage around there better than I. And only 6 turns to Sacking (which the Huns still don’t have). I haven’t played this turn out yet; make sure to check for trades too. Wanted to give our next player the maximum flexibility with this move.
 
And here is a screenshot of our current position...
 
Excuse me, it is here. Is there a better way to do Pics and Saves???
 

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Yes, there is. Look at the first thread in this forum. ;)
 
Oops ... silly me, I hit the FAQ button and followed the directions there.

Do we need to adjust/delete these, Chieftess, or is it okay as long as I never do it again?
 
Got it. I'll take a look today and post questions/suggestion here trying to get some feedback and will play tomorrow. Please excuse me if they would be stupid, I'm a newbie to SG.
 
Originally posted by Gobi Bear
Oops ... silly me, I hit the FAQ button and followed the directions there.

Do we need to adjust/delete these, Chieftess, or is it okay as long as I never do it again?

It's ok as long as you don't do it again.
 
Good turns, Gobi! Only two issues here.

I thought we were going to send at least one settler to the North (per the dot map?)

Ummm...this seems wierd trying to correct a scenario designer, but I always though forest chops don't contribute to the shield totals for Wonder builds? Has that been changed for this scenario?
 
Yes, you're right RJ. I had forgotten about that. I also note that those forested tiles near Syracuse are producing 2 shields for us each; we should just leave them alone. Plenty of workers in that area now, but none were left chopping. So, we can use them to mine or road near Syracuse ... or just move them on.

I believe all the dot map sites were settled. At least I thought so. Maybe I missed one? I did settle to the NE (Ammaedaera is new).
 
Several questions.

1. Assuming that Sacking is of low priority and its discovery can greatly diminish our ability to produce decent military in sufficient numbers, it is possible to trade the ability to create our own maps and read the maps of our neighbors (which is not easy) called Map Making from Eastern Rome or Sassanids for 70g+19gpt. Then trade World Maps from everyone and try to get some other advance in exchange for these maps. It is in our best interest to have strong allies in war with Rome by trading off some techs for maps. They are way behind anyhow. Or keep current pace and try to get sacking ASAP.

2. It would be very difficult to move units around without Fortification because of numerous rivers. Vandals certainly can swim, at least some of them, but bridges would be better. Swimming with sword and in furs is a tedious task even for veterans. Some dirt and bugs from hair and body is washed away by the stream which greatly improves hygiene and lightens the burden of excessive weight on our warriors. But our people are not used to this and feel uncomfortable for a long time. If we crush Rome, it will be a swift mighty and glorious blow. But we must travel to distant lands with warriors and migrants to secure these mysterious Roman obelisks. Bridges may be very important for this.

3. To get SoG it might be better to share the tax that we receive with our fellow citizens. However, the war council does not like this idea. Certainly, they will suffer from diminished income. We can use the slider and join at least 2 more workers to Syracuse. There are still 3 forests left in its radius but to work them all, some grassland has to be irrigated which requires another worker and additional citizen making total 8 up to 30-40% luxury. We may lose SoG to Huns because it is not known how long ago they discovered Barbarian Leadership. Also, there is a 70% Demigod bonus. Mysterious town Veliki Preslav of unknown size and productivity is working on it.

4. Vandal people feel uneasy when talking with the other tribes. Some now know how to write and read. But overall population is not attracted to this. In other tribes, especially ruled by a bald king dressed in a tunic (weird!), some buildings are constructed from wood and stone. They store books there and scrolls. It is rumored that these ancient parchments have pictures of various creatures and mechanisms. Their wise men write some scrolls by themselves and put in these buildings. Some of our people, especially living in the western parts of the Big Forest, want to go to the villages of so-called Saxons and see these relics by themselves. However, these building cost a fortune. And we would have to pay for our wise men to keep them safe from fire and vandalism (instincts and genes difficult to eradicate). For that money we can train several veteran warriors, feed them good food and give them a heavy sword. And we must assemble a council to decide whether to build these buildings or not.

5. Also, our people are breeding so intensely that there are too many of them and they have to sleep ten or twelve on one blanket. The men are probably happy with that (they can sleep on a pile of dirt after having some ale) but women and children are not. Which is not good because they are used to sleep five or six only. Rumors also say that when people are praying in a building they honor their king and work with greater vigor and strength. And will be so tired kneeling and bowing there that will sleep even fifteen or twenty on one blanket. It is not possible to understand because what difference does it make where to pray. These other buildings are called temples. And they are also expensive to build and we need to hire some shamans to keep them fireproof and clean.

6. Some strategic plan of enormous cruelty and wisdom suggests that the can expand our influence in the direction of Rome by building villages in hills to the south. These hills are rich with iron ore and gold to make the swords and battle-axes and jewelry for our women. Also, we can build some roads through these hills to travel more easily and hide our wounded warriors behind village fences where they can heal more rapidly and in safety. There are also some areas to the north that can be settled. The land there has only one resource which is wood. We can chop it, sell, and hire some more warriors.

Please Noble Members of the War Council advise me on these matters no later than tomorrow night minus 6 hours GMT.

We, Vandals, will kill them all.
And the Rome itself will fall.
Vandalizing all around
We’ll bring Romans to the ground.
We will kill and rape and torture
And bring back with us a fortune.
Sack, pillage, and raid and hail
And eventually prevail.

Sorry, no offense for anyone. All characters in this verse are the products of sick imagination of the author.
 
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