Realism Invictus
- Thread starter Walter Hawkwood
- Start date
Nicopathe
Chieftain
Does Realism Invictus include the Multiple Production mod component?
I meant this mod : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326545
I finds it really interesting because the "one building/unit construction/turn limit" seems really unrealistic for me. Would be great if included in your mod.
NoP
I meant this mod : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326545
I finds it really interesting because the "one building/unit construction/turn limit" seems really unrealistic for me. Would be great if included in your mod.
NoP
coinflip
Chieftain
Per the other comments, this is a fantastic idea, and one that could really open up the game to a neo-colonialism/cold-war scenario, with US and Soviet players arming "Vassals" around the world to fight limited wars. Lots of possibilities there!
I think it also better represents the leap from understanding black powder to being able to deploy it in military technology.
A Munitions Factory could convert Coal, Sulfer and Iron into "Firearms" (required for all non-Siege Gunpowder Units) and later technologies could improve that to "Advanced Firearms" for Tanks and Aircraft.
In re the Ancient Scenarios, a National or Great wonder that creates "Damascus Steel" (aka "Watered Steel") could provide the weapons edge discussed above.
And I agree that I would love to not only sell but also buy units from other nations.
coinflip
Chieftain
Referring back to the thread on Maritime Empires and Distance from Capital:
Thanks for the engagement! If I have sparked a new idea in the evolution of this amazing mod, then I feel I have paid you back in some way for your outstanding work.
An update on my game as Venice, aka the Even Holier Roman Empire:
I'm playing past the 1510 turn, and, interestingly, within 4 turns of winning the "Time" victory two of my closest neighbors declared war on me - France and Spain, both at "Pleased" prior to the wars. Not sure what triggered it, but it certainly made things very interesting after more than 50 game-years of quiet domination.
France in particular has a huge army, heavy on Cavalry, and I had mostly Arquebusiers without enough supporting Men-at-Arms or Pikemen. I had to attack his formations before he attacked me, and it was a challenging situation - first time in a while that I felt as though the AI was putting up a pretty good fight.
I convinced Russia to join me (I'm sitting on massive piles of cash), and he took Constantinople, which the French had previously conquered in the 4th Crusade.
Now, here's the odd thing:
Russia is Orthodox, and would benefit as the French would not from the Orthodox Holy City, yet it immediately ceded Constantinople back to the Byzantines!
Any comments on the underlying logic behind that would be enlightening.
BTW - I continue to adore this map, with the hidden gems in the corners. I want to play all the nations on it!
Thanks for the engagement! If I have sparked a new idea in the evolution of this amazing mod, then I feel I have paid you back in some way for your outstanding work.
An update on my game as Venice, aka the Even Holier Roman Empire:
I'm playing past the 1510 turn, and, interestingly, within 4 turns of winning the "Time" victory two of my closest neighbors declared war on me - France and Spain, both at "Pleased" prior to the wars. Not sure what triggered it, but it certainly made things very interesting after more than 50 game-years of quiet domination.
France in particular has a huge army, heavy on Cavalry, and I had mostly Arquebusiers without enough supporting Men-at-Arms or Pikemen. I had to attack his formations before he attacked me, and it was a challenging situation - first time in a while that I felt as though the AI was putting up a pretty good fight.
I convinced Russia to join me (I'm sitting on massive piles of cash), and he took Constantinople, which the French had previously conquered in the 4th Crusade.
Now, here's the odd thing:
Russia is Orthodox, and would benefit as the French would not from the Orthodox Holy City, yet it immediately ceded Constantinople back to the Byzantines!
Any comments on the underlying logic behind that would be enlightening.
BTW - I continue to adore this map, with the hidden gems in the corners. I want to play all the nations on it!
coinflip
Chieftain
Not to put too fine a point on it, Philoman, that's historically how Egypt - and every other empire - actually has expanded.
What this mod does better than most is make that very point. On huge map games with 3.0, I only ever built Settlers to replace cities I'd conquered to avoid culture problems. Again, that's a very ancient and time-tested practice from the Ancients through to the modern colonial (and even post-colonial) world.
One thing I dislike about Civ4 is how limited the diplomacy system is -- you can't say, for example, that you'll give someone a Carrack for 1000 Gold (well, in MP you can, but then you have to rely on an honour system because the other party is of course not obliged to actually pay you). So I would absolutely love a feature that allowed players to give away or sell weaponry to
Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn had this, and I would love to see it here, as well as war prizes. Ships, cannons, and other implements of war, as well as workers could be traded in Diplmacy or captured. My dream would be to see this as another option instead of a full of declaration of war, with positive and negative impacts for the respective leaders.
Cruel
King
The component that allows part of what is described here is called 'Advanced Diplomacy II' and we intend to implement it some day.
Maybe in text building we should change 'consumes' to 'uses' for this kind of building...
Floating Pants
Drunk on Life
Hey RI team. I'm a little upset at you, though, because I was a couple weeks late on the patch! I only got it about 2 weeks ago, though I was playing it unupdated before that! I can hardly remember 3.1 from 3.01 so it would be appreciated to give a little change to the OP!! 
But yeh, new patch is kewl and all. I have not started the crusades scenario yet, though that is my next priority, now I'm just playing a laid-back Monarch game as Inca, on a pretty interesting map. Noticing a few things.
I can't build doctrine - engineer corps! Was this just removed all by surprise and kept in the tech tree/civopedia or is there some kind of bug I'm experiencing?
Inca blademasters (unique shortswordsman) function as a worker/settler when being built, not allowing the city to grow.
Well, besides that, it seems to be running smoothly. I'm a bit confused at why the potter's workshop was made a national wonder... I usually just skip these buildings, the +1 gold isn't all that game altering, a bit unsure of the reason behind this. Also, playing Inca is pretty frustrating. As much of a powerhouse their land units are in the early game, it's mainly due to their unique 'canoes', a drawback that the Aztec also have... The only thing is that there is no copper on my side of the map - so I'm stuck with having to build 3 canoes to kill a single barbarian galley. *sigh*, Optics will never come soon enough...
But yeh, new patch is kewl and all. I have not started the crusades scenario yet, though that is my next priority, now I'm just playing a laid-back Monarch game as Inca, on a pretty interesting map. Noticing a few things.
I can't build doctrine - engineer corps! Was this just removed all by surprise and kept in the tech tree/civopedia or is there some kind of bug I'm experiencing?
Inca blademasters (unique shortswordsman) function as a worker/settler when being built, not allowing the city to grow.
Well, besides that, it seems to be running smoothly. I'm a bit confused at why the potter's workshop was made a national wonder... I usually just skip these buildings, the +1 gold isn't all that game altering, a bit unsure of the reason behind this. Also, playing Inca is pretty frustrating. As much of a powerhouse their land units are in the early game, it's mainly due to their unique 'canoes', a drawback that the Aztec also have... The only thing is that there is no copper on my side of the map - so I'm stuck with having to build 3 canoes to kill a single barbarian galley. *sigh*, Optics will never come soon enough...
Infantry#14
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,600
Do you mean this emperor? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Daozong_of_Liao
Sorry, I don't know any famous quote from him?
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Not yet.
Hm, interesting. But do you think that the Spring and Autumn period already allows us to speak of separate South Chinese identity? I think both Chu and Yue, while being the southernmost of all the kingdoms, still lay in the region that would now be North China.
OK, I see. But do you really think this is such an issue in RI? I rarely, if ever, run into stuff that takes less than 1 turn to complete in our mod.
Well, we didn't call that feature "AI plays to win" for nothing! These AIs realized you were going to win, and tried to prevent it.
That is interesting. I have no immediate explanation for it, and I didn't see stuff like this happen myself.
Hey RI team. I'm a little upset at you, though, because I was a couple weeks late on the patch! I only got it about 2 weeks ago, though I was playing it unupdated before that! I can hardly remember 3.1 from 3.01 so it would be appreciated to give a little change to the OP!!
Yeah, I guess we've ran out of confusing numbers for versions. The next one will have to stand out.
No, that's normal. This doctrine no longer makes sense due to how siege units now function, so the ability to create it was removed.
It has already been this way for a long long while. All shortswordsmen (and other later "irregular" units) use food for their construction.
Actually, +1 gold per city is quite game-altering, if you look at how much a city costs in early game.
HannibalBarka
We are Free
I just finished my first game with 3.1. Palyed a small world map, medim sea level with 6 other opponent on Monarch (raging barb, AI is neither agressive nor playing to win). I took a random civ and ended being Stalin.
Playing random maps is immensily more complicated than the World scenario. I played Carthage, Armenia and the South Chinese on the Large World Map on Emperor and it was a much easier game.
Stalin has the best traits for this level I think. Diplo is key because it makes the AI willing to sign OB and thus increases your commerce and and your science speed which is a huge plus early on. It also make the AI less willing into attacking you (though they'll do it if you let your army size miniscule), which is also a huge plus in the begining.
The other trait of stalin, add one H for 3H+ producing tiles. In the begining of the game that is also a huge plus since mines do not add any hammers to hill tiles compared to forest up until discovering Mining a bit later in game. My starting was also fantastic and fitting to those traits with many plain forested hills near by. Stone and Marble were close as well as wine. I however was "light" on military resources (no copper or horses near by). I had to wait for Iron to build "strong" troops, and being Diplomat was even more appreciated. Missing Copper was more problematic on sea actually because I couldn't build any thing better than galleys to fight against barbs galleys for centuries (that was really a pain).
After centuries of peace, I had my first war once I was already the most advanced civ so it was really no challenge at all. The unique artillery unit of Russia came handily by the way on time when I was "conquering" the world. This unit, and basically all gunpoweder based artillery unit are too much powerfull I think. The range bombardement is a killer because it makes you kill the enemy with no losses at all wile accumulating experience. the AI just suck on this one, so I think it should be some how lowered or we should make some units immune to range attacks, or create special promotions againt that. It was really a piece of cake to walk through all those heavily defended cities and take them all with almost zero losses.
I won by domination some years around Imperialism/Therory of Evolution era.
I started a new game yesterday as China. So far it's ok.
Playing random maps is immensily more complicated than the World scenario. I played Carthage, Armenia and the South Chinese on the Large World Map on Emperor and it was a much easier game.
Stalin has the best traits for this level I think. Diplo is key because it makes the AI willing to sign OB and thus increases your commerce and and your science speed which is a huge plus early on. It also make the AI less willing into attacking you (though they'll do it if you let your army size miniscule), which is also a huge plus in the begining.
The other trait of stalin, add one H for 3H+ producing tiles. In the begining of the game that is also a huge plus since mines do not add any hammers to hill tiles compared to forest up until discovering Mining a bit later in game. My starting was also fantastic and fitting to those traits with many plain forested hills near by. Stone and Marble were close as well as wine. I however was "light" on military resources (no copper or horses near by). I had to wait for Iron to build "strong" troops, and being Diplomat was even more appreciated. Missing Copper was more problematic on sea actually because I couldn't build any thing better than galleys to fight against barbs galleys for centuries (that was really a pain).
After centuries of peace, I had my first war once I was already the most advanced civ so it was really no challenge at all. The unique artillery unit of Russia came handily by the way on time when I was "conquering" the world. This unit, and basically all gunpoweder based artillery unit are too much powerfull I think. The range bombardement is a killer because it makes you kill the enemy with no losses at all wile accumulating experience. the AI just suck on this one, so I think it should be some how lowered or we should make some units immune to range attacks, or create special promotions againt that. It was really a piece of cake to walk through all those heavily defended cities and take them all with almost zero losses.
I won by domination some years around Imperialism/Therory of Evolution era.
I started a new game yesterday as China. So far it's ok.
Palaiologos2
Prince
Cruel
King
No...
Do you know a quote to ANDRONICUS_CONTOSTEPHANUS/Principality of Creta or EUMATHIOS PHILOKALES/Principality of Cyprus?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11196663#post11196663
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
Playing your game online again. I love it! Me and my friend managed to Oracle Alchemy and Astrology (not sure why, now that I think about it) and wiped out almost half the map! It's great fun!
Palaiologos2
Prince
Hmmm.....
Finding actuall quotes for them is near impossible. But Andronicus was an exceptional general that defeated the Magyars at Sirmium, cut through the Turkish ambush at Myriokephalon, and repelled the Venetians at Chios. He was a staunch aristocrat.
Philokales on the other hand was a notable diplomat, yet he imposed heavy taxes on Cyprus, to the disdain of the local church authorities.
You could make up something relevant, i suppose.
coinflip
Chieftain
Not that I know of, but I've played the scenario 3 times, and each time there was a big war led by the HRE and France (usually with a few other Papist states) against the Byzantines around 1400, kinda like the historical 4th Crusade which actually sacked Constantinople instead of going off to the Holy Land.
OnmyojiOmn
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 371
I find myself appreciating this mod more and more as I play it. Some random feedback, hopefully not too negative:
- Still really unsatisfied with the fast game speeds and tech times early on. I find myself looking forward to the point where I can beeline a tech for 20+ turns. I like to be in a situation where I have a certain set of capabilities, and my enemy has certain capabilities, and I can explore that for a little while. In RI, you're five techs ahead of a certain building or unit you've discovered before you've even built one. I feel like the entire ancient/classical tech tree is just busywork; everything crisscrosses with everything else, everything requires everything else, and every civ comes out looking about the same.
- A lot of the city artwork needs to be simplified. I can't say how much of a performance it causes, but the unnecessary detail makes it look like a pixellated mess when you're zoomed out.
- I find that other civs tend to hate me, and love each other, simply because I deny them open borders while they seem to grant it to each other by default. I like the fact that you've made this a more important decision for the player, but it's less meaningful than it could be because the AI doesn't seem to understand the implications. I think the AI should tend to keep its borders closed unless it's going for a strategy that emphasizes open borders.
- I'd really like the option to automatically limit city growth to prevent unhappiness. This aspect of micromanagement in Civ4 is made tolerable with BUG's alerts, but the pandemic feature in RI pushes it right over into pain-in-the-ass territory. Preferably, we would have options to prevent unhappiness or unhealthiness, or both, as well as an option to limit growth after the city has accumulated a certain food percentage in order to be more prepared for pandemics.
- The city governor often runs a food deficit, which can be really bad when you take pandemics into account. The governor should not run a food deficit when the city is under 30-50% food.
- I find that when I play heavy or clunky mods like RI or Fall from Heaven, there's a really noticeable framerate hit while a unit is moving. I guess it must have something to do with the fog of war being updated. This is an aspect of mod performance that I haven't seen discussed anywhere. Anything you can do here would be appreciated.
Thanks
- Still really unsatisfied with the fast game speeds and tech times early on. I find myself looking forward to the point where I can beeline a tech for 20+ turns. I like to be in a situation where I have a certain set of capabilities, and my enemy has certain capabilities, and I can explore that for a little while. In RI, you're five techs ahead of a certain building or unit you've discovered before you've even built one. I feel like the entire ancient/classical tech tree is just busywork; everything crisscrosses with everything else, everything requires everything else, and every civ comes out looking about the same.
- A lot of the city artwork needs to be simplified. I can't say how much of a performance it causes, but the unnecessary detail makes it look like a pixellated mess when you're zoomed out.
- I find that other civs tend to hate me, and love each other, simply because I deny them open borders while they seem to grant it to each other by default. I like the fact that you've made this a more important decision for the player, but it's less meaningful than it could be because the AI doesn't seem to understand the implications. I think the AI should tend to keep its borders closed unless it's going for a strategy that emphasizes open borders.
- I'd really like the option to automatically limit city growth to prevent unhappiness. This aspect of micromanagement in Civ4 is made tolerable with BUG's alerts, but the pandemic feature in RI pushes it right over into pain-in-the-ass territory. Preferably, we would have options to prevent unhappiness or unhealthiness, or both, as well as an option to limit growth after the city has accumulated a certain food percentage in order to be more prepared for pandemics.
- The city governor often runs a food deficit, which can be really bad when you take pandemics into account. The governor should not run a food deficit when the city is under 30-50% food.
- I find that when I play heavy or clunky mods like RI or Fall from Heaven, there's a really noticeable framerate hit while a unit is moving. I guess it must have something to do with the fog of war being updated. This is an aspect of mod performance that I haven't seen discussed anywhere. Anything you can do here would be appreciated.
Thanks
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
As I mentioned recently, we will likely add an even slower speed in the next patch.
Removing stuff isn't likely to happen. At least we won't be adding much more...
AI leaders don't have any real preference for each other over the player. Moreover, different leaders sign open borders with different eagerness. There are some who sign a lot of OB, there are some that almost never sign. But in general, having many open borders is, IMO, a better strategy in our mod, not only for tech bonus, but because trade is more important as well.
I'm not even sure we'd be able to do that. I know I couldn't.
That has more to do with the fact that there are certain python/game core functions that have to be recalculated for the tiles surrounding the unit, like aid values in our mod. We've been pouring a lot of effort into optimization of that stuff, and 3.1 should be noticeably better in this aspect than previous versions.
OnmyojiOmn
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 371
I'm not suggesting that remove any artwork. A lot of the buildings have small, unnecessary details, and could be simplified for both performance and aesthetic improvements. As I said, I find that the details only result in aliasing and shimmering when zoomed out. I do understand that you may not have an artist on hand who can do that.
