Realism Invictus

[Walter Hawkwood]

Sure, not perfect, but that's how we decided to implement it, and it's unlikely to see major changes. Don't forget that your total production also grows non-linearly with the number of cities. In Civ 4, each new city normally provides significant net benefit for the whole civ, due to how resources are handled. 5 cities will produce not 5x more than 1 city, but a fair bit more than that. That's not even to mention the factors of strategic depth - a bigger civ will have more hinterland cities that don't need as much protection. It does prompt bigger civs to garrison hinterlands with irregulars (which scale upwards way less than everything else), but that's actually more realistic, as that's how it was IRL as well.

All in all, it's ultimately up to you whether to turn it on or off, but you're making an a priori assessment of something that was balanced and tested for several years (at least for non-extreme map sizes; might actually be a good idea to apply a bit of correction for tiny and huge maps).

 

[Roland Johansen]

I wasn't assessing it for balance. Usually diminishing return mechanics are very easily balanced in the sense that it keeps everyone more equal in strength. The more you diminish the extra gains, the more equal everyone is in strength.

The reason that it doesn't sit well with me is because it doesn't make any sense to me, which I explained. So, I am happy that there is a way to play without it.

I like all kinds of challenges of expansion, like the increased city upkeep cost in civilization 4 for the bigger bureaucracy. I also like your increased research costs which make sense as the research needs to be implemented everywhere in a bigger empire. Next to that, research is a kind of sequential thing. Doing it parallel over countless people doesn't necessarily speed it up. Humankind is not a hive mind. Every new research is created based on the backs of the giants that came before. Limited numbers of units per tile make sense and avoid some part of the bigger is better. An often forgotten element, but also the travel times from the well developed core to the edge of an empire will slow down expansion. Research costs from one technology to the next that increase at an exponential rate. There are luckily a lot of elements in this game that feel natural and which make the increase in power of empires less exponential.

This one element feels very unnatural to me, so I am happy that you kept it optional.

 

[baseballpie]

TBH I don't remember changing anything in this regard.

Damn. Any idea what settings it could be under if I want to poke around in the code?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Nope, a lot of map generation is quite obscure.

 

[BenkofAmerica]

Hello,

I wanted to share some updated scenarios I made. The USA map is a Renaissance Huge 900sqmi:1tile (mostly) accurate map of North America, centered around the US. The Europe map is a Medieval Large map of the same scale (the scale is essentially the same as the RI Europe scenario only without N Africa and Central Asia). Both run well without crashes on my computer.

 

[giorgio1234]

If I'm not wrong, there should be some discrepancies in the tooltips in the popup to choose the action after revolutions.

Looking at the various "canApplyRevoltXyz" methods in the CvRandomEventInterface.py file, I built the following list of government requirements and tooltip labels:

Revolt2 (Bribe), REPUBLIC DEMOCRACY OLIGARCHY, (requires Republic or Democracy)
Revolt3 (Replace), HEREDITARY_RULE AUTOCRACY, (requires Autocracy or Monarchy)
Harsh, DICTATORSHIP AUTOCRACY, (requires Autocracy or Dictatorship)
Sermon, THEOCRACY, (requires Theocracy)
Tax, HEREDITARY_RULE THEOCRACY DEMOCRACY, (requires Monarchy, Theocracy or Democracy)
Martial, DICTATORSHIP, (requires Dictatorship)
Arrest, BUILDINGCLASS_KGB, (requires Lubyanka wonder)
Propaganda, DICTATORSHIP DEMOCRACY, (requires Dictatorship, Democracy or Federalism)
Autonomy, DEMOCRACY, (requires Federalism)

Considering the following link between government keys and descriptions,

REPUBLIC Republic
DEMOCRACY Democracy
OLIGARCHY Confederation
HEREDITARY_RULE Monarchy
AUTOCRACY Autocracy
DICTATORSHIP Dictatorship
THEOCRACY Theocracy

I think that:
- Revolt2 tooltip should be "(requires Republic, Democracy or Confederation)"
- Propaganda tooltip should be "(requires Dictatorship or Democracy)"
- Autonomy tooltip should be "(requires Democracy)"

P.S.
Sorry for the awful spacing, I can't manage to keep the tab chars.

 

[PKSRoman]

i notice sometimes AI civ cities revolt and turn into barbarian state because they put 100% in gold while they have high unhappines
Etiopia were pretty low on world`s list (0% additional separatism) and despite this they fall and split on half

 

[PKSRoman]

OLIGARCHY Confederation

For me "Oligarchy" always were "Plutocracy" civic, not conferedation
Ancient Rome had oligarchy and they didnt have "Confederation" system, only Republic

Question about Global warming. How does it work in this game?

Didnt work

Since the scope of the mod ends with the XX century, global warming is simply off. Its real effects were felt only in the XXI century, and TBH, since humans did so little to avoid it before, there's no realistic way for it to have happened earlier (humanity was basically speedrunning it in XIX/XX centuries IRL); the mechanic is relevant way past the intended end date, so the easiest way was to just turn it off.

its sad, i would put it as additional option for players who play without tech limit and have indrustal era and tanks in 1600 AD
in that case global warming would make sense

 

[PKSRoman]

aaaaand one turn later:
second revolt in whole country and turning into barbs in less then 20 turns
its even funnier since he in this state of decay declare a war aganist top 2 civ

aaaand two turn later we have similiar situation:
first time i have this situation AS WEIRD as it:

 

[Roland Johansen]

I was clicking around a bit in the Civilopedia and noticed that the German distinctive battlecruiser has the same stats as the normal one but is more expensive. Is it meant to be a small disadvantage to the Germans? Comparing is sometimes a bit tricky in the Civilopedia because the general version of a unit shows all the variant of a unit, cluttering it up a bit. But I thought there were no differences between the units, except the higher cost for the German one.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I was looking a bit at sea and ocean income without special resources. There seem to be few ways to improve that. In the original Civ4, with the harbour, you got at least enough to feed the worker working there. But in Realism Invictus, the tiles seem rather useless as you will have to feed the workers there (which produce 2 food while eating 3) from food from the land and the small commerce income seems barely worth it compared what you can get from specialists.

Am I missing some bonus that makes the tiles more worthwhile? Or are you supposed to not work them?

 

[sazhdapec]

I was looking a bit at sea and ocean income without special resources. There seem to be few ways to improve that. In the original Civ4, with the harbour, you got at least enough to feed the worker working there. But in Realism Invictus, the tiles seem rather useless as you will have to feed the workers there (which produce 2 food while eating 3) from food from the land and the small commerce income seems barely worth it compared what you can get from specialists.

Am I missing some bonus that makes the tiles more worthwhile? Or are you supposed to not work them?

Base water tile gives 1 food (fresh water lake base is 2 food), fishing docks increase that by 1 (total 2), shipyard increases that by another one (total 3), industrial shipyard replaces shipyard and increases food production by 2 (total 4).

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I was clicking around a bit in the Civilopedia and noticed that the German distinctive battlecruiser has the same stats as the normal one but is more expensive. Is it meant to be a small disadvantage to the Germans? Comparing is sometimes a bit tricky in the Civilopedia because the general version of a unit shows all the variant of a unit, cluttering it up a bit. But I thought there were no differences between the units, except the higher cost for the German one.

Thanks, that prompted me to go over all the armoured and late-game naval units and clean up some leftover stuff like this.

I was looking a bit at sea and ocean income without special resources. There seem to be few ways to improve that. In the original Civ4, with the harbour, you got at least enough to feed the worker working there. But in Realism Invictus, the tiles seem rather useless as you will have to feed the workers there (which produce 2 food while eating 3) from food from the land and the small commerce income seems barely worth it compared what you can get from specialists.

Am I missing some bonus that makes the tiles more worthwhile? Or are you supposed to not work them?

Early game (pre-shipyard) generally no, but with a lot of caveats - there are civ-specific buildings and world wonders that might tilt the balance. For some specific examples, Colossus + financial is fun, and as an Austronesian, you'll love water tiles.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Base water tile gives 1 food (fresh water lake base is 2 food), fishing docks increase that by 1 (total 2), shipyard increases that by another one (total 3), industrial shipyard replaces shipyard and increases food production by 2 (total 4).

Thanks. I had seen the fishing docks, but I had missed the two shipyards. It is hard to get a good overview of this extensive mod when you just start playing.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Thanks, that prompted me to go over all the armoured and late-game naval units and clean up some leftover stuff like this.

Early game (pre-shipyard) generally no, but with a lot of caveats - there are civ-specific buildings and world wonders that might tilt the balance. For some specific examples, Colossus + financial is fun, and as an Austronesian, you'll love water tiles.

Thanks, interesting examples of when they will be very good tiles. I was just a bit worried before I saw the shipyards what to do with the tiles in the long run. Still, it seems you'd rather have land tiles to get a high output city.

I see that you sometimes respond here with fixing something. Does that mean that I can somewhere download a new version, or do you group a whole bunch of those changes together before a new release?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

One can generally download the SVN version, which is where I upload all the fixes and updates once in a while (these days monthly or so). Those then end up in new release versions, roughly yearly. The instructions on how to set up an SVN version are in the first post of this thread, and the changelog can be browsed here: https://sourceforge.net/p/civ4mods/code/commit_browser.

There are some drawbacks for regular users running SVN version. These days, since no new features get implemented, it's very unlikely you'll run into any new bugs, but the SVN version takes quite a long time (10-15) to load due to not being packed. Some people still prefer to run it rather than wait for releases.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Ok, I haven't done that before but I'll check it out. Thanks.

It would take 10-15 minutes to load a game! Phew. That's a lot. There has to be some stuff in there that would really annoy me to go for those kinds of loading times. Still good to have the option.

Thanks for fixing the last smaller issues.

 

[Growling]

I really liked the old music and miss it alot. I have the old music files from the earlier versions. What files do I have to change to get it back? Any experts here ?

 

[Törnqvist]

Hi, I have a game mechanic question. How come I get a higher production bonus for workshops and manufactories in cities with direct access to iron (that has iron inside the fat cross)?

In cities with clock tower and no iron I get +2/+4 hammers for workshop/manufactory, as expected. But in cities that also have iron, I get +3/+6 hammers. I cannot find any text in the game that would indicate this bonus.

I have confirmed this with two cities that have direct access to iron, those are the only two cities that get +3/+6.

See attached screenshots. You can see hammer bonus from the already built workshops, and from the manufactories that are being built.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I really liked the old music and miss it alot. I have the old music files from the earlier versions. What files do I have to change to get it back? Any experts here ?

A piece of advice if you love the "old" music - download 0AD, it's free and there's plenty more music like that there, IIRC all easily accessible as MP3. And to save you the hassle of messing with XML, it's probably easier just to play it outside Civ 4 and turn off the in-game music.

Hi, I have a game mechanic question. How come I get a higher production bonus for workshops and manufactories in cities with direct access to iron (that has iron inside the fat cross)?

In cities with clock tower and no iron I get +2/+4 hammers for workshop/manufactory, as expected. But in cities that also have iron, I get +3/+6 hammers. I cannot find any text in the game that would indicate this bonus.

Not seen in your screenshots, probably because you scrolled the building list down, but it's likely due to forge / blast furnace building line - those are the only buildings in RI that give percentage-based production bonus tied to certain resources, and it might be stacking with the workshop building line .