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Realism Invictus

So why do you create the huge stacks? You can't get multiple smaller stacks aligned to attack the bigger one?
LOL. The size of the enemys stack have each time been 2-2½ time bigger than mine. So what do you expect will happen if I attacked that stack - even if I had divided my army into several smaller stacks?

No I had (still have) a perfect position with a Fort, where I can defend against nearly any enemy stack comming from the east. At least until some more serious canons are available to the AI. The defense-bonus my army gets at a hilltop in a Fort may be too high - but that can be changed to my next game.
 
who can explain to me the corporation system in realism invictus?
Corporations aren't coming to RI. And it's not "reintroduced", as the mod is older than BtS is. We decided not to add them in the first place.
The quote is from an old reply Walter made back in Nov 5, 2018 (page 349).
 
LOL. The size of the enemys stack have each time been 2-2½ time bigger than mine. So what do you expect will happen if I attacked that stack - even if I had divided my army into several smaller stacks?

No I had (still have) a perfect position with a Fort, where I can defend against nearly any enemy stack comming from the east. At least until some more serious canons are available to the AI. The defense-bonus my army gets at a hilltop in a Fort may be too high - but that can be changed to my next game.
Have they not tried to sail around?
 
LOL. The size of the enemys stack have each time been 2-2½ time bigger than mine. So what do you expect will happen if I attacked that stack - even if I had divided my army into several smaller stacks?

No I had (still have) a perfect position with a Fort, where I can defend against nearly any enemy stack comming from the east. At least until some more serious canons are available to the AI. The defense-bonus my army gets at a hilltop in a Fort may be too high - but that can be changed to my next game.
I didn't suggest that you'd attack with a lot lower number of soldiers. That wouldn't work out without some huge advantages on your end. I was only talking about the big penalty that these troops get and that you could get an advantage for a number of attacks using multiple smaller stacks. You'd still need a similar number of course to be able to defeat them, but your losses would be less than when using a single huge stack.

This is of course not in comparison to using a huge bonus from a fort. It is just a theoretical discussion about how to deal with a big stack of units in general when you don't have a location with a huge defensive bonus in the neighbourhood. Would you then go head to head also using a big stack yourself or split up into stack with lower combat penalties?
 
I'm on my phone or I'd reply at length, but it doesn't exist. It got removed altogether. The industrial goods system is the spiritual replacement.
To me it is also a superior system especially since the corporations can get really overpowered.

I believe to have read somewhere that the industrial processed goods system was already in the making before corporations had been added in CivIV BTS.
 
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Why is AI so focused on destroying other civs, even though they have less defended barbarian cities literally near them?(with good resources)

I wonder how this prioritization works. Sometimes it works, other times they don't bother at all...

Exhibit A: Egypt has massive army but only wages war against Israel/Arabs but still hasn't conquered lucrative barb port city right at it's doorstep.
It's already middle ages(RI Europe scenario)
Spoiler Exhibit A :
1716328880312.png


You can also see clearly on the map that there are plenty barb cities in Europe and near the Indian civs.

It's not like they have constant wars either.
I watched Egypt sit on his massive 40 unit stack for 20-30 turns doing nothing. Why not take a free city in the meantime????
 
Why is AI so focused on destroying other civs, even though they have less defended barbarian cities literally near them?(with good resources)

I wonder how this prioritization works. Sometimes it works, other times they don't bother at all...

Exhibit A: Egypt has massive army but only wages war against Israel/Arabs but still hasn't conquered lucrative barb port city right at it's doorstep.
It's already middle ages(RI Europe scenario)
Spoiler Exhibit A :


You can also see clearly on the map that there are plenty barb cities in Europe and near the Indian civs.

It's not like they have constant wars either.
I watched Egypt sit on his massive 40 unit stack for 20-30 turns doing nothing. Why not take a free city in the meantime????
Cause barb won't attack you, unlike your "friendly" neighbor
 
who can explain to me the corporation system in realism invictus?
First you claim you have serious experience with this mod and play on higher levels and complain about balance in different versions, then you don't know that corporations don't exist in realism invictus... That's a huge contradiction.

You get serieus penalties when you stack a lot of troops, meaning that smaller stacks of troops will have better statistics per unit. So I would expect it to be attractive to attack the stack of death with multiple smaller stacks which don't suffer these penalties. Of course, it may be hard to get multiple stacks in position to attack the bigger stack. And you still want as many of the aid bonuses from stacking as possible.

So why do you create the huge stacks? You can't get multiple smaller stacks aligned to attack the bigger one?

While bigger stack gets supply problems it often has better survivability because of stacked aid bonus and amount of fresh units, AI tends to overpower smaller stacks even though they have no supply problems simply by attacking them with 2-3 times more units and chipping away injured units.

So I'd say your stack size should react to the AI armies nearby, if there's a lot of enemy units around its better to stay together.


I have to note that TheBirdMan tweaked his build extremely so maybe balance and production and economy works in different proportions, its not illustrative.
 
First you claim you have serious experience with this mod and play on higher levels and complain about balance in different versions, then you don't know that corporations don't exist in realism invictus... That's a huge contradiction.



While bigger stack gets supply problems it often has better survivability because of stacked aid bonus and amount of fresh units, AI tends to overpower smaller stacks even though they have no supply problems simply by attacking them with 2-3 times more units and chipping away injured units.

So I'd say your stack size should react to the AI armies nearby, if there's a lot of enemy units around its better to stay together.


I have to note that TheBirdMan tweaked his build extremely so maybe balance and production and economy works in different proportions, its not illustrative.
As I said, don't attack it with less units, but attack it with the same number of units spread over 3 or so tiles. For instance attack a stack of 40 units with three stacks of 13 units at once. You should still get most of the aid bonuses but (depending on the stage of the game), very few supply penalties.

The big stack however should have something like a -25% penalty for all units due to supply penalties.

Of course, in some situations, is may be harder to get there with three smaller stack during the same turn.

But I do wonder if the supply penalties are enough to dissuade stacking when one player faces opposing stacks of 100+ units or that it breaks down. It is likely impossible to counter it with smaller stacks that don't face supply penalties.
 
Why is AI so focused on destroying other civs, even though they have less defended barbarian cities literally near them?(with good resources)
I'd say it's a scenario-specific behavior, I did notice on world map scenario AI tends to keep barb settlements for a longer time. If you play random maps made by generators AI will gladly eat up barb settlements as early as classic era. Sometimes they survive long enough to form a civ.
Next phase of AI attacking isolated barb cities is when it discovers merchantmen ship to colonize.

As I said, don't attack it with less units, but attack it with the same number of units spread over 3 or so tiles. For instance attack a stack of 40 units with three stacks of 13 units at once. You should still get most of the aid bonuses but (depending on the stage of the game), very few supply penalties.

The big stack however should have something like a -25% penalty for all units due to supply penalties.

Of course, in some situations, is may be harder to get there with three smaller stack during the same turn.

But I do wonder if the supply penalties are enough to dissuade stacking when one player faces opposing stacks of 100+ units or that it breaks down. It is likely impossible to counter it with smaller stacks that don't face supply penalties.
I play on small maps and don't remember encountering stacks bigger than 50-60 units. Sure its a viable strategy to disperse into stacks without penaties, but if you're against a mega-stack and won't finish it in one turn it will likely eat up easily your smaller stacks. This mistake often happened to me in middle ages sieges when I dispersed my siege stack into 3-4 smaller stacks near enemy city and then ended up not taking city on the first turn and being severely mauled by defenders on their turn.
 
It's also really important to remember that strength reduction alone isn't the sole penalty applied. The reduced movement cost coupled with extremely slow reinforcement mean that invading with such a stack is very strategically impaired. You might win your first battle or two, but when you can't reinforce that army and it's moving at one tile per turn, the enemy's ability to harass you and pick off or wear smooth your premium units might be equal, even if the initial victory is often more likely.

I experimented with making the penalties more severe on my own not too long ago (adding negative first strikes and increasing the strength penalty significantly more), but I think the default is still better. It's easy to forget how impactful even small differences of strength are in Civ4 combat, and so a small stack with, say, a net of +24% strength and a single additional first strike from Recon I could easily fare rather well against an SoD trudging along with the full logistics penalty and carrying several aids which wouldn't be applicable to a fight in an open field. The AI was capable of managing this, but soft-capped really small stacks weren't as fun, and the problem I was trying to address wasn't actually an issue to begin with.
 
I haven't played along far enough in the game to encounter really big stacks. Is the AI a bit aware of the penalty and will it sometimes split its stack to avoid the penalty when it thinks it would benefit?

I can also imagine that the mood developers don't want to pile up the disadvantages of stacking too high if the AI can't handle it too well.
 
Have they not tried to sail around?
Both the Turks and the Persians (truly allied during the whole game - at least until the Turks got beaten seriously by the Vikings) did try naval invasions in the start, but as I had more good harbors than they had combined and was able to produce more warships than them, I won most of the sea-battles. Besides in this game I was leading in tech - something very rare for me I say - so I got a good upperhand for a long time as the world changed from the Classican Era towards the Medieval.
 
7) Any reason to play with the setting that punishes you for getting ahead of history? It feels a bit weird to be held back by a year value in the real world.
There surely is. It's not "fun" to see airplanes and battleships when the game-year is 'round 1000 AD. At least that's how I and many others here feel. Before this feature was made, I had to change the <icost> up (and a few times down) to get what I wanted. This "task" was both difficult and took a long time each time a new version/update came out. Now I can have my focus on what I really want to change in the tech-tree and leave the general ajustments I want to a few simple changes in CIV4EraInfos.xml file.
Just a little add-on I forgot to mention to these old posts from start April.

My current game has now reached early Renaissance Era (see spoiler below) even though I have played 1417 turns. The year 1152AD (I still think it's a bit too early, so this will need another little "hand" before I start next test-game)

When playing those very slow and long games as I prefer, you will really like the many different military units that becomes available in the first 3-4 Eras. You "know" most units do not become obsolete the first 2-3-400 turns. You simply have to learn how use them the best possible way (you have to - there's no option not to do it - except loose the game).
Spoiler Current tech-map :

Civ4ScreenShot0296.JPG



Any, who loves this game and have a big amout of patience should try this - at least just once. Who knows - maybe you get hooked on it
 
Hey, you replied to me, but I'm not clear to what you're suggesting. I also really like this extensive mod. Realism Invictus is great.
 
Hey, you replied to me, but I'm not clear to what you're suggesting. I also really like this extensive mod. Realism Invictus is great.
It was about your question about the tech-ahead "penalty" R:I have (your old post from Apr 30). I should have added above to my post already back then... But better later than never.
 
I don't like it when technology progression would be out of wack on average each game. If I would notice that, then I think I would change the map size research factor or something like that to get it better aligned. But Walter already commented that it should be ok on average.

If I happen to play a game where all the stars are aligned to increase my research or the research of one of my AI competitors, then that is what it is. And if I get a horrible starting location and I trail the historical progression, then that is also ok. I wouldn't want the technology costs to change halfway through the game with a factor just because things are going well or poorly.
 
Quality of life suggestion: This has been mentioned before, but some events occur quite frequently or are anachronistic. I actually had mentioned the volcanic eruption frequency being excessive before, and Pecheneg actually made the case that this is quite true to real life (using Kamchatka as an example). Even if that's true, for gameplay purposes it throws things out of balance and is annoying since it is unpredictable and there is nothing you can do to prevent them. This disincentivizes building cottages anywhere near an active volcano, as they will wipe out the entire town completely and thus the sunk cost of developing them over time is wasted as the investment is removed. I would suggest either implementing an alternative where the volcano "pillages" the town and only reduces it to its preceding level, or simply go to the event folder and reduce the probability of the event by changing the probability number (as I have done in my own case, with pleasing results where it still occurs but is not nearly so common as the default). Similarly, some events routinely recur way too frequently to be plausible which harms immersion, such as the plane crash event (in some of my games, this has happened literally every few turns for the entire duration since flight is researched) and the grain donation to an AI civ, which sometimes also happens every few turns and has allowed me to rake in obscene levels of positive relations with said civ, to the effect that diplomacy with them ceases to be meaningful and you can remain at friendly after declaring war on them several times. A simple modification of the probability value in the folder seems to have done the trick for me, so this change would be easy to implement. I had even forgotten about most of these since I had already done so on my own install, but playing the fresh SVN saw this all come right back to life.

As far as anachronistic events go, the "careless cigarette smoker" destroying the theater immediately comes to mind, but I believe there are a few others. That one in particular should have an industrial tech prerequisite (much as the plane crash event does with flight), and this would also be easily fixed.
I may take a look at the events, yes. My go-to answer is that RI changes almost nothing events-wise compared to vanilla but that's just me being lazy I guess.
Maintenance: A recent commit in the changelog referenced removing the notification which identifies the location of great people births for civs that haven't been met. Was this applied to wonders as well, since this notification functions the same way for both? My other question concerning this is whether the location should be identified, if you have met the civ in question diplomatically but the birth city is still unexplored. When playing, I had met Peter the Great from a carrack he had sent over, but did not have any knowledge of his empire's geography. He lost a city, and I got a notification for the destruction of wonders from conquest, as well as a locator in the black showing the tile of the city where they had been destroyed. Since that locator does not appear when the game presents the notification as "in a faraway land," I figured this could potentially be tied to that description if the city in question has not been explored, even if the leader has been met diplomatically.
Nope, the change concerned Great People only. I believe wonders have vanilla behaviour in this regard. I'll look around and see if it behaves in the intended way.
Suggested reimplementation: This is something I have brought up a lot (though I think only once specifically as a petition) but I would recommend reenabling defensive pacts, just as they are in vanilla Beyond the Sword. Initially, I was in favor of offensive alliances, and while I actually never experienced the purportedly then-common scenario of them becoming ubiquitous and preventing war nearly altogether (in fact, they were often only signed among friendly civs and in triangulation against mutual enemies, just as you would want) I found that it felt cheap that I as the player could "wield" other civs' militaries by making them declare war on my targets with no option for them to refuse. I actually tried to play with permanent defensive pacts from the global defines setting, but that appears to be broken as they functioned like default and expired with each new war anyway. I think they are an interesting feature and add another layer to a diplomacy which is a bit thin on player interactivity in its current form (even if statically it is quite dynamic), and the original reason for their removal has literally never happened in numerous entire games I've played with them on. I'd suggest putting them back in.
Probably not just as they were, but I'll have a look at AI, and maybe I will be able to make them more fun. I'd like to provoke some World Wars towards the end game.
I've got a balance question, been thinking about it for a while.
Doesn't it seem strange to you how useless Nuclear plants are compared to real life? No benefits at all. Gas plant is better in any regard and by the time you survived to get to this point you 100% have a gas resource somewhere around. Keeping coal plant with event bonus could be more beneficial too, wile solar and gas plant provide bigger boosts to happiness and health. Nuclear plant link with late game wonder is negligible. And to top it off small meltdown risk. So whats the point?

I think Nuclear plant should give significant production bones, so its either you strive for more health-happiness, or risk meltdown but get production benefits, what do you think?
The problem here is that, generally speaking, power plants are all very similar to each other gameplay-wise. A small health penalty is all the difference we really get. IRL, different countries have very different approaches to their power sources - I don't have any productive ideas how to recreate this distinction in RI gameplay-wise.
Why is AI so focused on destroying other civs, even though they have less defended barbarian cities literally near them?(with good resources)

I wonder how this prioritization works. Sometimes it works, other times they don't bother at all...
I also believe it's a scenario-specific issue. My theory (unbacked by any actual digging around in AI code for that) is that AI evaluates potential strength of every "victim", and with lots of pre-placed barbarian cities and units, it considers barbarians a far greater threat than other civs, up to a certain point in time. I'll see if I can maybe a) prove/disprove it, and b) if it's true, implement a reasonable workaround
If I happen to play a game where all the stars are aligned to increase my research or the research of one of my AI competitors, then that is what it is. And if I get a horrible starting location and I trail the historical progression, then that is also ok. I wouldn't want the technology costs to change halfway through the game with a factor just because things are going well or poorly.
Actually, my own take is that, on average, tech progress should probably be faster than IRL. Given that a game lasts a finite number of turns and ends in 2020 (IIRC, but somewhere along these lines), we'd want to reach the end of the tech tree in most games, not just the 50% with better-than-average circumstances, which means that real history should be treated not as a median case, but as a reasonably bad scenario.
 
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