newfangle
hates you.
Mines on grassland are the only way to get in despotism.
Regent TICKS ME OFF!! (long)
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Gastric ReFlux
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Oh if I have floodplains I'll definitely mine the grassland with the despotic ruleset.
Think of it this way--a worker task on a hill takes twice as long as on grassland. I'm doing that to develop a tile that'll only produce one food, which will slow down the population growth. But if I use that worker to improve two non-hill tiles in the same amount of time, I should have the population growth to compensate for the one mined hill tile.
Of course, there are times when exceptions will make the rule. But in general, I won't begin mining hills until I've switched out of despotism, or a little before if my workers have run out of regular tiles to work.
Think of it this way--a worker task on a hill takes twice as long as on grassland. I'm doing that to develop a tile that'll only produce one food, which will slow down the population growth. But if I use that worker to improve two non-hill tiles in the same amount of time, I should have the population growth to compensate for the one mined hill tile.
Of course, there are times when exceptions will make the rule. But in general, I won't begin mining hills until I've switched out of despotism, or a little before if my workers have run out of regular tiles to work.
That's not accurate. Hills only give 1 shield unworked. Mining will add +2 shields for a total of 3 minus 1 for the despot penalty for a total of 2. So mining hills as a despot still doubles the shield output of that tile. When you change goverment you will get an instant 50% increase on all those tiles, minus waste of course.
Lt. 'Killer' M.
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if you play emperor or deity, you don't want the cities large at the beginning, and you need lots of prod, simply to get enough untis to get the AI pests to leave you alone - that's why I sometimes mine hills.... especially near rivers.
Gastric ReFlux
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Well yes I said there are exceptions, but my point is that hills are probably the last priority to work. Work the grassland and plains first.
Don't underestimate the importance of pop growth, even at the higher levels.
Don't underestimate the importance of pop growth, even at the higher levels.
Gastric ReFlux
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I still feel it's accurate. I didn't say it wouldn't help boost production, but that it was a fool's errand and that stems from the use of the worker. I'll take two mined grassland tiles over one mined hill tile in despotism.
Gastric ReFlux
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Originally posted by Matt_G
Ok, now I see the post you made while I was typing mine, and I understand where you are coming from now.
Heh heh. And I see you posted while I posted again.
I'll agree with Gastric 100% on this point. I may even go to state that there are absolutely no exceptions to this very early in the game. remember that to get the most of a mined hill you'll also need to build a road to get that extra commerce. this early in the game every point of gold counts and researching pottery early ensures a faster steady-stream of settlers. also mining and building roads to two grassland/plains tiles will take the same time as mining and building a road on a hill but will net you 3 food and 1 gpt more.
Catt
Emperor
Keep in mind with all general "rules of thumb," game circumstances may jusify deviating from an accepted "best practice."
I find myself mining and roading hill tiles while in despotism in a fair number of games, particularly where an early city site may be a great potential settler/worker pump (some flood plains with wheat, for example), but offer up few opportunities for shield generation without mining hills. It's great to have tons of excess food for pop growth, but if it takes 30 turns to build a settler, then (at Emperor) I'm going to have a large and very unhappy city before 30 turns rolls around.
There are other examples (going for an important wonder, etc.), but just thought I'd chime in with a reminder to play the hand dealt as intelligently as possible - which sometimes means deviating from accepted "best practices."
I find myself mining and roading hill tiles while in despotism in a fair number of games, particularly where an early city site may be a great potential settler/worker pump (some flood plains with wheat, for example), but offer up few opportunities for shield generation without mining hills. It's great to have tons of excess food for pop growth, but if it takes 30 turns to build a settler, then (at Emperor) I'm going to have a large and very unhappy city before 30 turns rolls around.
There are other examples (going for an important wonder, etc.), but just thought I'd chime in with a reminder to play the hand dealt as intelligently as possible - which sometimes means deviating from accepted "best practices."
Gastric ReFlux
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Yep, I agree totally Catt. Our ability to deviate from the general rule when needed is something that keeps us ahead of the AI.
I had noted that grassland irrigated in despotism was a waste of time, and as has been indicated, I would only irrigate a tile like a floodplain. (only because you cannot mine it)
The real key to early development is to maximize your workers' productivity. Work on easy terrain, and only work as many tiles as are actually being worked by your population. I have given some thought to actually building roads before mining, since a road is completed faster, and will bring quicker benefit than the extra shield. However, the shield is a much more valuable resource early in the game.
For instance, I had one game where I started on a floodplain with 5 floodplain/wheat squares. I couldn't get shields fast enough to build my settler before i hit pop of 3. I tried rushing a couple of settlers, but then the city was useless due to unhappiness restrictions.
The real key to early development is to maximize your workers' productivity. Work on easy terrain, and only work as many tiles as are actually being worked by your population. I have given some thought to actually building roads before mining, since a road is completed faster, and will bring quicker benefit than the extra shield. However, the shield is a much more valuable resource early in the game.
For instance, I had one game where I started on a floodplain with 5 floodplain/wheat squares. I couldn't get shields fast enough to build my settler before i hit pop of 3. I tried rushing a couple of settlers, but then the city was useless due to unhappiness restrictions.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
The original post was something of a rant, but I'm glad to see that this has turned into a helpful thread (rare indeed in the General Forum!)
A lot of good strategy has been posted in this thread so far, but I've yet to see the most important thing of all for success: growth. Power in Civ3 is having more cities, and that means growth, which means maximizing early food production. Irrigate floodplains, wheat, and cattle tiles? YES!!! It always surprises me how many people don't know this. If you have a low food starting area, build a granary early on. It will greatly speed up your early game expansion. In almost all cases in the first 100 turns of the game (land grab phase), prioritize food over shields in your cities. More food means more city tiles being worked faster. This is the key to surviving on the higher difficulty levels. Given a decent starting position, I can keep pace with the Emperor AI civs' expansion.
Others have said it, but I want to re-echo this point: manage your cities and workers yourself. It it indeed time-consuming, but it's the single biggest advantage a human has. The AI makes amazingly bad decisions on what jobs workers should do, what to build in cities, what tiles each city should work, and how to manage happiness in cities. The poor management of the AI civs is the only thing that allows a human to have even a chance on Deity. Don't give away your biggest advantage! You can get by with sloppy play on the lower difficulties, but it will get you killed in the higher ones.
Finally, don't complain to me about tech going too fast on Regent. I just finished a Deity game in which the United Nations was built in 970AD!
A lot of good strategy has been posted in this thread so far, but I've yet to see the most important thing of all for success: growth. Power in Civ3 is having more cities, and that means growth, which means maximizing early food production. Irrigate floodplains, wheat, and cattle tiles? YES!!! It always surprises me how many people don't know this. If you have a low food starting area, build a granary early on. It will greatly speed up your early game expansion. In almost all cases in the first 100 turns of the game (land grab phase), prioritize food over shields in your cities. More food means more city tiles being worked faster. This is the key to surviving on the higher difficulty levels. Given a decent starting position, I can keep pace with the Emperor AI civs' expansion.
Others have said it, but I want to re-echo this point: manage your cities and workers yourself. It it indeed time-consuming, but it's the single biggest advantage a human has. The AI makes amazingly bad decisions on what jobs workers should do, what to build in cities, what tiles each city should work, and how to manage happiness in cities. The poor management of the AI civs is the only thing that allows a human to have even a chance on Deity. Don't give away your biggest advantage! You can get by with sloppy play on the lower difficulties, but it will get you killed in the higher ones.
Finally, don't complain to me about tech going too fast on Regent. I just finished a Deity game in which the United Nations was built in 970AD!
Lt. 'Killer' M.
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Sullla: 
it is important that these things are repeated again and again - otherwise many newbies will be frustrated without need. Thanx!
it is important that these things are repeated again and again - otherwise many newbies will be frustrated without need. Thanx!You were screw by the random number generator, in any way you should have lost your swordsman to warrior and a fortify spearman should beat warrior most of the time. Stangely when human attack an ai. fortify spearman you loose all time, but if ai attack a human spearman with a warrior then he succeed lots of time, that s bull **** from firaxis.
Originally posted by Sullla
Finally, don't complain to me about tech going too fast on Regent. I just finished a Deity game in which the United Nations was built in 970AD!
That has changed with the new patch. I participated in the chat at poly yesterday and I think this quote from Soren will interest all of you.
It's not going to move that fast anymore!!
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I know; I've heard that as well. It should make Deity a lot easier, which almost disappoints me. Although the relative cost to get techs will be the same (it will still be a 6 to 10 advantage for the AI), the game will take more turns overall. Next to keeping up on tech on Deity, the hardest thing is not having enough turns to build the necessary infrastructure in cities. My latest game was over in 1250AD. Since that is only 240 turns into the game, most of my cities were nowhere near finished building their city improvements; the game was OVER before they had the chance to build them. If Deity games are going to start moving at a reasonable pace and end around, say 1750AD, it will be much easier to win. And I don't know if that's a good thing or not at all.
Chris_b_89
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consider SimCity- another Sid Meier creation.
I was not aware that Sid created Sim City. I may be the only one that didn't know this, but thanks for posting
I was not aware that Sid created Sim City. I may be the only one that didn't know this, but thanks for posting
i'm also having problem at higher level. The AI KNOWS all my troop position AND they seems have ATTACK/DEFENCE bonous. Also at higher level the AI get more free support for unit and a stronger production.
As a result, i feel impossible to beat AI by military beyond warlord level.
Tech Trading? what will u do if u're in isolated isalnd? no trading until late middle age? the AI would have been mordern age already!
As a result, i feel impossible to beat AI by military beyond warlord level.
Tech Trading? what will u do if u're in isolated isalnd? no trading until late middle age? the AI would have been mordern age already!
Masquerouge
Deity
You're kidding, aren't you ?
