Religion - General discussion/unstructured info

[mitsho]

An Atheist playstyle seems wrong. However, they hinted that the Religion system would fade into background with the SP Trees of Rationalism, Freedom, Order and Autocracy. They would then also have more influence on diplomacy. Seems very reasonable to me and historical as well. It also forces you to make a gameplay choice of keeping with the old trees or change and lose some (not all of the bonus). Probably the same way Piety will enhance some of your bonusses of the Religion.

 

[sukritact]

An Atheist playstyle seems wrong. However, they hinted that the Religion system would fade into background with the SP Trees of Rationalism, Freedom, Order and Autocracy. They would then also have more influence on diplomacy. Seems very reasonable to me and historical as well. It also forces you to make a gameplay choice of keeping with the old trees or change and lose some (not all of the bonus). Probably the same way Piety will enhance some of your bonusses of the Religion.

It don't see anything wrong with an atheistic play style (other than the fact that this has never happened historically). It's just i'd like to see a game where a civilization is an advanced and secular nation amidst a sea of religious nations gaining benefits from their religions (not saying religion can't support science). It'd be nice if secular nations can get a boost to science to make up for the bonuses they'll loose out on.

Although honestly i'll be more interested in how it'll tie into diplomacy. I just hope the diplomatic effects of religion comes into play only when a religion is developed to a certain point (maybe the diplomatic effects increase as more founder beliefs are adopted?). It'll be interesting to see religious conflicts in the game.

I'd love for there to be a religious victory, maybe spread your religion to X percent of the world? It would certainly be a good incentive for religious wars.

 

[Optional]

I made a slightly smoother translation of what the German article says about religion, for people who find the google translation in the opening post a bit difficult to follow:

CBS (Computer Bild Spiele): The expansion is titled 'Gods and Kings'. Is religion part of it?
DS (Dennis Shirk): Yes, religion is making a return. Although the fans will see that we are using it in quite a different way from its predecessor.
CBS: In what way different?
DS: At the start every player can form a Pantheon - an early religion, with which access can be gained to up to 3 'beliefs'; those are one-time bonuses. If he happens to be settled in a rocky area, he can choose a belief that adds a religious worship function to every worked quarry. In this way he can accumulate faith.
CBS: What's this faith for?
DS: With that at some point in the game the player receives a great prophet, who calls out a religion. This grants access to two more beliefs, which will become very strong.
The 30 pantheon beliefs are quite good, but the 20 world religion beliefs are in comparison stronger. Those 5 that the player develops, are obtained by him alone. Every belief can be picked only once and that blocks it for all others.
CBS: Does a religion disappear from the game when the civilization that developed it is getting wiped out?
DS: No, that's not how it works. Because world religions are spreading over borders. There are even beliefs which allow a player to ask tribute from every follower of their religion, also from inhabitants of other nations!

 

[The_J]

I made a slightly smoother translation of what the German article says about religion, for people who find the google translation in the opening post a bit difficult to follow:

Added to the second post in this thread, thank you .

 

[qec]

Do you think Jedi will be included as a religion? There's actually a phenomenon where people list Jedi on their census forms and some countries have notable Jedi populations. Here's the Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

gec, yes, not as an offical religion, btu you can name your religion "Jedi".

 

[dexters]

Do you think Jedi will be included as a religion? There's actually a phenomenon where people list Jedi on their census forms and some countries have notable Jedi populations. Here's the Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

I kind of wish they do include a 'custom religion' in place of one of the existing religions as an option, similar to how you an edit the name of the ruler of your empire.

They can throw in a bunch of generic icons for people's made up religion.

I can't imagine this taking a lot of extra resources to program or breaking the game.

I don't think we need to go to mods to add our made up religion in. Not that I will care too much, but some people do, and mods is just an unweildy extra step for something the core expansion should be able to handle cheaply.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I kind of wish they do include a 'custom religion' in place of one of the existing religions as an option, similar to how you an edit the name of the ruler of your empire.

They can throw in a bunch of generic icons for people's made up religion.

I can't imagine this taking a lot of extra resources to program or breaking the game.

I don't think we need to go to mods to add our made up religion in. Not that I will care too much, but some people do, and mods is just an unweildy extra step for something the core expansion should be able to handle cheaply.

But I just said.... I.... doesn't ANYBODy ever listen to what I just posted?

YOU will BE able to RENAME religions, it was stated before, just like cities, you WILL be ABLE to RENAME the RELIGIONS. The only thing is the icon, other than that, you WILL be able to RENAME the RELIGION Popo .

 

[dexters]

Apologies, I must have missed that.

 

[Deggial]

But I just said.... I.... doesn't ANYBODy ever listen to what I just posted?

Happens all the time to me... don't worry, you are not alone...

 

[filli_noctus]

I'd like to hear a bit more about Great Prophets. If all they can do is enhance religions I think that a trick has been missed. Presumably they can start a Golden Age as other Great People and I imagine that they can create a tile improvement (something like 'shrine') but nothing has been confirmed. It would also be nice if they can be used to create a schism by founding a new religion but giving it the same beliefs as an existing religion you follow allowing you to develop it further.
I also hope that they aren't limited to two per civ per game and only available to founders of religions as implied by the preview. No other GP has a hard limit on numbers you can earn.
On to religion in general, will there be a way to take the ability to develop the religion (and reap the founders benefits) from the founder? Possibly by taking the holy city or burning a prophet. Presumably there is a mechanism in place as we've been told religions can survive the founding civ being eliminated and it doesn't make sense to have an extant religion stopping development.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Reading through this IGN article again. Two things I noticed. One, there's an ability to have "cheaper missionaries" which suggests that anyone can religion can build missionaries. Second, the follower beliefs appear to be city focused and not empire focused. While this doesn't mean much, it does mean it doesn't preclude the possibility of foreign cities having more than one religion. Graphics considerations might suggest otherwise, though.

I missed this the first time, did anyone comment on this:

After the Renaissance period religion becomes less important in diplomatic decisions, but faith nonetheless remains an important resource, allowing players to buy "great people" of any sort. Normally you have to use the corresponding resource to buy the specific type of great person (i.e. spend science for a great scientist), but faith can cross boundaries. This invariably makes it useful in the later game for whatever type of victory you're going for.

 

[elprofesor]

I believe that means that any Great Prophet after the second one can (must?) be converted to any other Great Person.

Thinking about it, Great Prophets probably aren't even real units...

 

[Louis XXIV]

There certainly doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to make them real units unless they have a tile improvement.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I'm pretty sure Great Prophet will have a tile improvement revovling around the Faith 'resource', maybe a Shrine or a Temple or something. maybe even a Holy Building like we had the Temple of Solomon for Christiniaty in Civ 4, I actually hope those Religious Wonders actually return.

 

[Birdjaguar]

So it appears that if you want to push quickly along the religious path, you need to build faith up early in the game. I wonder how that is done.

When your faith score crosses some threshold, you get a prophet and dibs on your first belief. Sounds very cool.

 

[seasnake]

So it appears that if you want to push quickly along the religious path, you need to build faith up early in the game. I wonder how that is done.

When your faith score crosses some threshold, you get a prophet and dibs on your first belief. Sounds very cool.

I think we'll see a lot of changes to the early game based on this. You can build up your military, pursue faith, go for scientific advancement, extra money, city state quests or culture. Some civs will be more likely to pursue one path more than another, but others should be capable of pursuing any path you wish.

Sounds like fun, can't wait.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If missionaries are civilian units like workers and settlers, and thus can't stack with other civilian units, could I use workers (or my own missionaries) to block other religions' missionaries from gaining access to my cities by setting them on the city tiles? Obstructionist strategy?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

If missionaries are civilian units like workers and settlers, and thus can't stack with other civilian units, could I use workers (or my own missionaries) to block other religions' missionaries from gaining access to my cities by setting them on the city tiles? Obstructionist strategy?

I think that's an automatic yes, you don't even need Civilian units to do that, the rule is that two nations can't stack on each other, I don't think my worker can stack on other person's Warrior/Scout.

 

[Camikaze]

There certainly doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to make them real units unless they have a tile improvement.

Other than that all great people are units. It'd be a bit of an odd break to make Great Prophets not a unit.

So it appears that if you want to push quickly along the religious path, you need to build faith up early in the game. I wonder how that is done.

When your faith score crosses some threshold, you get a prophet and dibs on your first belief. Sounds very cool.

It sounds a bit like how culture works, so you probably build up faith in similar ways (though I wonder if you get automatic faith in your capital as you get automatic culture?).