KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Also I wouldn't see why Great Prophets would not have a tile improvement... Shrine.. +4 faith for working this tile.
Religion - General discussion/unstructured info
- Thread starter The_J
- Start date
Also I wouldn't see why Great Prophets would not have a tile improvement... Shrine.. +4 faith for working this tile.
King William I
King
Keep in mind though, one article (can't remember which one) said that both the religions and social policies will have a medium to large impact on diplomacy (i.e. pious and rationalist will be natural enemies) so I'm guessing that civ wth different religions will take a diplomacy hit
I really love watching you guys piece together the design from the information you have. Watching threads like this develop really is one of the most fun parts of my job
One key fact that you're missing is that the different categories of beliefs (Founder, Follower, etc) draw from a completely different pool of options. That screenshot you have is only showing you some of the options for the Founder Belief.
My guess and hope is (based on gregs comment):
Basic premise:
- One religion per city.
- A city can convert from one religion to another.
- The 3 pantheon religions choose from different pools than the later religions.
- Later religions unlucks with a tech, social policy, faith or something different.
There will be a battle between religions in each city. The 3 pantheon religions would almost always lose that battle and city converts to a later religion at some time if present nearby (so early investment in religion will be lost, would be great for gameplay).
Buildings and missionaries can be purchased for faith, both will increase the pace a religions spreads, but you will get to buy less benefits for your religions. So it is about balancing between spreeding and benefits. For example a christian city without a church will be very vulnerable to a muslim missionary.
I would prefer religion support to function a bit like the CIV4 culture where you for example could be 60% Christian, 30% muslim and 10% Jewish. Sending a missionary, nearby influence etc. should change those percentages. But as long as a city is at least 50% of one kind of religion you get the bonusses from it.
AbsintheRed
Deity
From the religion pic we have in the OP, there is a founder belief called Initiation Rights:
+100 gold when each city first converts to this religion
In my read this settles the question, every city can only have one religion at a time
It also suggests that the religion in a city is fairly easily changeable though
+100 gold when each city first converts to this religion
In my read this settles the question, every city can only have one religion at a time
It also suggests that the religion in a city is fairly easily changeable though
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
I think religion should have any religion it has, but it works bit like city flipping. So if there's 3 religions present, the one with most influence will become the dominant religion, but the other 2 are still present, but their effects aren't active unless its' the dominant religion. I don't enjoy the idea of only a single religion in cities.
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
What will the difference between different types of beliefs be?
I'm guessing the Pantheon will have nature-based beliefs.
I assume all the founder beliefs will benefit you when your religion spreads.
The follower beliefs should be a little more generic, right?
I'm guessing the Pantheon will have nature-based beliefs.
I assume all the founder beliefs will benefit you when your religion spreads.
The follower beliefs should be a little more generic, right?
This may be a false (or ignorant) hope, but in CIv5, we do have more uniqueness about Civ leaders than we had before. This would include some traits that would be deemed somewhat offensive to others. Also, we have different Social Policies, including one called Piety that's in conflict with Rationalism, etc. Perhaps Firaxis and 2K would be willing to take a bold step and offer at least some unique traits among the differing religions. I'm not holding my breath that they will do it but I think this would be better than having 10 base religions that's all the same (regardless what a civer would do to each). One can hope.
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
I disagree.
I like the system we have in Gods and Kings.
It allows for differences without being offensive or discriminatory,
I just want something that gives us more choices to make or a critical decision-making juncture(short and long term). If we have religion A through J and they are all identical, then what's the point beyond adding more gold, happiness, etc. to what we already have?
We have leader traits that get bonuses upon killing, we have sight and land grabs all in the name of Manifest Destiny and we have Bushido code implying its units fight better than others when hurt. Those are all great, making playing a civ a little more different (esp. compared to Civ4). Couldn't they offer some balanced uniqueness among religions without getting too offensive?
We have leader traits that get bonuses upon killing, we have sight and land grabs all in the name of Manifest Destiny and we have Bushido code implying its units fight better than others when hurt. Those are all great, making playing a civ a little more different (esp. compared to Civ4). Couldn't they offer some balanced uniqueness among religions without getting too offensive?
PSPSoldier534
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
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I'm pretty sure all religions will be different with each game. That's point of having a belief pool. Only one civ (one religion) can have those beliefs. You don't find that unique?
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
Exactly.
No, because there's no difference between having multiple religions each having a random set of beliefs (based on what was chosen/rolled) and having only one religion with multiple belief sets. Or have no religions and simply choosing a belief set like we did with civics and social policies.
What make them more unique (and better for decision-making) would be a set of beliefs that are unique to each religion (with some overlaps, perhaps). Say you have the option of getting Religion D first but you really like the options with Religion J better. Just like with resources (and to some extent city-states), you got to find a way to get your preferred choice.
Random set of beliefs regardless of what random religions are available to you doesn't add anything to the game except just more bonuses. It would be like each Civ leader having the exact same traits/UA along with their UU/UB.
Trias
Donkey with three behinds
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2008
- Messages
- 594
From what I understand:
-Pantheon beliefs: Affect how faith is generated.
-Founder beliefs: Give a bonus to the founder of a religion for each city with that faith.
-Follower beliefs: Give bonuses to each city with that religion (possibly in the form of relgious buildings)
-Enhancer beliefs: Effect enhancer units like missionaries. (or maybe more in general effect how a religion is spread)
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
Nice.
I like the way this is coming out.
The more I understand about religion, the more excited I am about it!
So you get any of these bonuses and units regardless of religion?!?
PSPSoldier534
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
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- 67
So what you want is a system where picking one specific religion would give you a certain set of beliefs that are different than picking another?
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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- Apr 3, 2004
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- 12,418
No, but the religion they go with varies.
For example, in the real world, England is not an Autocratic government, but as the English player in a particular Civ game you can choose for it to be so.
Just like Christianity (in the real world) is the only religion with belief X, but in a particular civ game, Hinduism might be the only one with belief X or Islam might or (because you can rename religions) Buccaneerism might be the only one to give you belief X.
So as Buccaneerism spreads in a particular civ game, it will have a particular belief set that follows it.
The other issues are how the beliefs ARE tied to religion.
like the pantheon beliefs... they seem to be tied to your civ.
BUT if you develop a world religion, does that religion carry the Pantheon beliefs of your civ?
(and so any where your religion spreads your Pantheon belief overrides the native Pantheon belief)
When you develop a world religion, you get to assign the Founder and the first Follower beliefs (which I assume stick with the religion)
however
Can another civ (that follows your founding religion) be the one to add the second follower belief and/or the enhancement?
I assume the second follower belief sticks with the religion as well (when someone chooses it, it immediately benefits everyone that follows that religion.)
What about the enhancement, does it also "stick with" the religion? or can the same religion be different in different civs? (one has Christianity enhanced one way, another has it enhanced another way)....
Perhaps it might depend on "tech" or something like that, ie Christianity has a all 5 Beliefs, but some people only get the benefit of the first 3.
Could anybody answer these questions :-
Q) Could there be any reason u follow the religion of somebody instead of founding ur own ? Since there are 11 religions so it is quite possible that each civ will get one.
Q) Would that be a choice to remain athiest or open minded in religion's choice & be competitive in game ? Religion could have a setback of making more foes (and friends ofcourse) so a conqueror might prefer to stay out of these religious conflicts. (Eg: Genghis Khan)
Q) In real world there are still civs which prefer to stick to religion. So will that be sensible to invest further in religion later in the game rather than going for the late SPs. Obviously that would be roleplaying purpose, but I just want to be sure that nothing will be forced upon & the player will have other viable options.
Most of these questions are about roleplaying but some of these cover the gameplay aspects & as well freedom of choice for the player.
Q) Could there be any reason u follow the religion of somebody instead of founding ur own ? Since there are 11 religions so it is quite possible that each civ will get one.
Q) Would that be a choice to remain athiest or open minded in religion's choice & be competitive in game ? Religion could have a setback of making more foes (and friends ofcourse) so a conqueror might prefer to stay out of these religious conflicts. (Eg: Genghis Khan)
Q) In real world there are still civs which prefer to stick to religion. So will that be sensible to invest further in religion later in the game rather than going for the late SPs. Obviously that would be roleplaying purpose, but I just want to be sure that nothing will be forced upon & the player will have other viable options.
Most of these questions are about roleplaying but some of these cover the gameplay aspects & as well freedom of choice for the player.
Yes, just like picking a Civ/leader to play.
Still trying to digest Krikkitone's post.
