Replay #2 Huge Domination with 1.4 Mio points [BUFFY]

re: currency again:

I read you noted how nice currency is and also the other big benefit: getting free gold or gold in trade. So I imagine you're on-board with currency from Oracle next time.
 
re: currency again:

I read you noted how nice currency is and also the other big benefit: getting free gold or gold in trade. So I imagine you're on-board with currency from Oracle next time.

Hehe :D

Of course I will try it out, but it really depends on the map whether it's possible or not I think. Early Currency would be awesome, getting it from Oracle if possible is logical, but Alpha on Huge is 1755 beakers that I have to get from somewhere, and I have to get them even before Oracle is built. I've seen Oracle been built as early as 2500 BC, so delaying it is a huge risk, and getting 1755 beakers on top is getting about 700 beakers more then I got in my best games, and it means skipping Sailing + Masonry which affects the GLH aswell as the Religion-spread. It really seems extremely hard, but the possible benefits justify the risk taken. Perhaps it's possible in a round where I have even more Gold / Gems / Silver and where the AI already built cottages for me, don't know, but I will try for sure.
 
re: currency again:

I read you noted how nice currency is and also the other big benefit: getting free gold or gold in trade. So I imagine you're on-board with currency from Oracle next time.

Need math or alphabet, pretty much impossible on deity
 
Need math or alphabet, pretty much impossible on deity

Wastintime is one of the best Deity players there is Jihe ;)

If it's only Math that's needed, it could even be possible on Huge maps as Math is way cheaper then Alpha. I had some rounds where I was able to research Sailing + Masonry, that's nearly equal to Math. It is very very hard, but if he says it's possible, it is.
 
You can always look at Player Logs for the HoF games. They show the order tech was discovered. I usually get Alphabet first and trade like crazy. There is still time for Currency from Oracle (usually before turn 150)
 
You can always look at Player Logs for the HoF games. They show the order tech was discovered. I usually get Alphabet first and trade like crazy. There is still time for Currency from Oracle (usually before turn 150)

Maybe the marathon is all different but on normal/standard the oracle goes way before one gets mathematics/alphabet.
 
Maybe the marathon is all different but on normal/standard the oracle goes way before one gets mathematics/alphabet.

Deity AI techs faster, so they will have Alpha before Oracle goes away.

Just made it in a game. Delayed Oracle till 2000 BC, then I was able to trade the rest of Alpha against Meditation, built Oracle, took Currency. It was only a 2 gems start and none of the cities I conquered had any Gold / Gems / Silver, so it's perfectly possible with some intermediate rush tactics and some base commerce. Basically one has to delay the rush a little and conquer cities everytime the money goes out to keep research to 100%, GHs help A LOT with that also.

And: It's more awesome then I expected. I thought, I'd have to give Currency away to Mansa first to get Masonry + Sailing to build the GLH, but, what I forgot, with Currency one can gold-trade! Traded Mediation and Priesthood around for about 700g (just think about that sum at 2000 BC!) and purchased both Sailing and Masonry for that!

Best tip I've gotten in long time, thx again for it Wastin!

 
As always, I've forgotten to attach the Savegame -.-

Here is the Savegame of 500 BC!
 

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nice to buy techs, but why be so stingy.let mansa have currency.use 2 0 0 0 gold to keep research at 1 0 0
 
I've been thinking about this Seraiel, but with the Romans and gold, you can REX to as many cities as the Incans can Quechua rush to. You won't have the Wonders, but you can war non-stop once you have praets since your economy will be better.

Also, Romans start with mining..... Idea is to worker-steal, mine the gold or gems, and get BW first for barbs and chops for more cities and production.

Once IW hits, start the wars, beginning with the target you stole from. Interestingly enough, IW is decent trade bait.

Also, don't bother with granaries. Just build barracks, and monuments and attack with praets. The tech target of choice is CoL for courthouses.

Try the one linked to the thread, "Not a Bad Start." http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11171624#post11171624

Spoiler :
You have 5 gold.
 
I have the same problem. Doing it right is easy, in image shack you can just specify screen size, i go for (1024x 768 or something like that ??, don't remember exact figures by heart). That'll be ok for most comps.
 
Wow, this thread actually has some readers besides me and WastinTime O_o :D I'm just experiencing troubles with newly installed BUG / BULL Mod to be able to play not only HoF but also Forum games, I'll post the next update after I was able to fix them, will be soon, I promise.

nice to buy techs, but why be so stingy.let mansa have currency.use 2 0 0 0 gold to keep research at 1 0 0

I will think about that too, but letting Mansa have Currency isn't a good idea imho. He trades with anybody, sometimes even for gold, so I couldn't trade for as much gold if he had Currency and all Civs sooner or later would have it too then, and I need a high value tech to recover from my ultra-expansion on Huge maps where I expand to 15-20 cities by 1500 BC. Still having Currency then pays out big time, as I normally get Math, Calendar, CoL and Monarchy for it, so I can hold Aesthetics to myself. If everyone would have gotten Currency by then from Mansa, I would be in big trouble then.

I've been thinking about this Seraiel, but with the Romans and gold, you can REX to as many cities as the Incans can Quechua rush to. You won't have the Wonders, but you can war non-stop once you have praets since your economy will be better.

Also, Romans start with mining..... Idea is to worker-steal, mine the gold or gems, and get BW first for barbs and chops for more cities and production.

Once IW hits, start the wars, beginning with the target you stole from. Interestingly enough, IW is decent trade bait.

Also, don't bother with granaries. Just build barracks, and monuments and attack with praets. The tech target of choice is CoL for courthouses.

Try the one linked to the thread, "Not a Bad Start." http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11171624#post11171624

Spoiler :
You have 5 gold.

5 gold sounds awesome, I'll think about playing that game, as I've finished my last round today and am looking towards playing with a different leader. Biggest advantage I see for Praets on Marathon is, that one has them earlier then Elephants, with HC I normally get Elephants about 1000 BC, I get IW at least 1000y earlier then that. Imho you should also give Oracle -> Currency a thought, it has revolutionized my games, I wasn't joking when I said to Wastin that this was the best tip I've gotten in long time. CoL is normally easily aquirable by trade once cities have reached the status where they have the time for building the courthouses, because normal BO for me is Granary -> Library / Barracks -> Courthouses. Skipping Granaries doesn't sound like a good idea to me, though you have come up with some very unusual ideas that have proven right lately, might be worth testing on Marathon. Did I get that right that your game has Barbs on? For HoF you should always turn them off imho, as you need way less units in the beginning then, lowering the maintenance. Biggest disadvantages I see for Julius or Augustus is hoever, that they start without Mysticism, so founding an early religion is impossible, my games still rely heavily on getting a Shrine by 1500 BC.

I've enjoyed reading this thread, but the massive screenshots mean a lot of side-scrolling, which started to cause me some motion sickness (forcing a reading pause). Is there any way you can reduce the size of the images? I use Irfanview for mine.

I will take the critique and improve for the next post ;)

Greetz, Seraiel
 
Hi again :>

I was able to temporarily fix the problems with the newly installed BUG / BULL Mod in Combination with BUFFY, and knowing there are readers motivates much to post the next part of Replay #2 :>

Here are the years 500 BC to 1 AD!

Spoiler :


Story continues in turn 300. After the first early wars, I was able to bring the Incan Empire up to 21 cities and 2 vassals! The core cities are about Size 8 atm. and most of them are building Courthouses. After having spread Religion massively, the Temple of Salomon already brings in a profit of 61 GPT! Another 56 GPT are aquired via Ressource trade. I'm still doing deficit research, the Empire is making more than 500 BPT atm. with a netto loss of 200 GPT. Both, the shrine and the ressource trade are each equivalent of 20% research, which is a lot imho. Whats also amazing, is, that the additional TRs aquired through the GLH produce roughly 50 Commerce, so basically, without doing deficit, and without the GLH and the shrine, research would be at 0% XD

Lets continue the writeup after this short demographic and economic analysis:

490 BC: Education finishes! Same turn, I don't have any more money for deficit research, which was enormously costly while aquiring this big tech advantage while warring. I experienced this in other games until now. Main problem is, that the AIs simply do not have that much money on their hands in that period of the game, and a further problem is, that Education is a big tech one doesn't want to trade away cheap or at all, at least I want to make sure to be the first to discover Liberalism! As I see now, I could have traded Music and Paper with some more Civs at that time, but in that round I had a minimum limit of 300g per 3000 beakers, now, I would even trade techs like music or paper for as cheap as 200g!
Anyway, doesn't matter, more important is, that Catherine says she got enough on her hands right now. I'm pleased with her, but War-Advisor still says the threat-index from her is elevated, I hope she doesn't want to backstab me while I'm in war with Frederick! I have single LBs in all my border cities and a SoD of 16 Units, not really enough to stop her, the power ratio with her says I have 60% of her military power.

470 BC: I make a dumb move and lose 4 Units to Fredericks obsolete troups in Cologne -.- I thought shock-promoted War Elephants would do better against Spearmen, but actually they don't.



Same turn, I bribe Mehmed to war with Frederick, mainly because I urgently needed some gold and got the DoW for free while trading Compass with him.

420 BC: Suleiman builds Notre Dame using a great Engineer he got the round before. Notre Dame is a Wonder I almost never build myself, as normally by the time I need it, I was able to conquer it. So will it be this time, Suleiman is a neighbour of mine and though we are still warmates, I only accept two sorts of relationship with my neighbours, and that's them doing what I want, or them being Vassals to the Incan Empire! I'm still worrying about Cathy, I can't dispatch any troops to the border with her atm. If she DoWs me, I will have to whip big time in cities that are currently building Universities as I still gamble with an early Oxford.

410 BC: After conquering Cologne and destroying most of Frederick's units, he is willing to capitulate. As you can see on the screenshot, the CR-Maces did the most of the work, again, without any losses.



Btw.: I ordered Mansa and Napoleon to research Guilds and Engineering, because Cathy already has both of them, and I need Engineering for the movement bonus and Guilds to get Economy, Mansa and Napoleon are still 30 turns away from it though. I myself am still researching into Liberalism with a low percentage of 50%. There is actually no possibility to aquire any gold via techtrade and the extreme expansion is stifling my economy. Remember, without the shrine, the trade with ressources and the GLH I wouldn't be doing any research at all!

Same turn, I trade Music for 300g + a double revolution (civic-change) with Washington. I like those gold + revolution trades, as it delays the AIs quite heavily, as you will soonly see.

400 BC: I whip a Courthouse with max-OF into the National Epic. I will say this just this one more time again, whip with max-OF into national / World Wonders, you don't pay the malus by that and get a huge production start on the Wonder, always do it, whenever you build a Wonder, no matter what, ok? Whip a Missionary if you don't know what to whip.

390 BC: Spies destroy a Terrace in Tiwanktu! Of all cities they take the one not having Food so the one which has low-pop and needs it the most! This is the disadvantage of not building any Spies, but building Spies is simply to costly, do not build them, unless you're doing an espionage economy, they're not worth the cost. Just suck it up and rebuild if anything gets destroyed.

380 BC: Cyrus completes the Angkor Wat! I was constructing that in Beshbalik for Failgold, same turn I'm able to get 500g from tech-trades, it seems I can finally do some deficit research again!

370 BC: I get 1300 Failgold from Angkor Wat! Research is back at 100% since last round, doing a good of 600 BPT atm.

350 BC: Peter finishes the Hagia Sophia! I know from my other games, that AI prioritizes this Wonder quite much, I didn't build it as I still do not have Marble! In the meantime, the brawl for the last german cities has begun XD They all there now that I've destroyed Fredericks forces, Mehmed, Suleiman, even Mansa! Go away, those are my cities! XD



Same turn, another GS is born! I use him to lightbulb Printing Press to higher my techrate, as I'm really having trouble atm. to get a tech-advantage. Cathy has Nationalism nearly finished and her Vassal Lizzy is researching Banks, I hope to trade those from them. Liberalism is 1 turn from finish, so I can delay it safely now, as nobody is going to beat me on that!

340 BC: Frederick now got LBs in his last cities. This could get more costly then I wanted to, as Berlin is lying on Hills and I still don't have real siege with me yet, as Cats at that time are simply crap and I'm short to having Engineering so Trebs, if Mansa would use his tradeskills sometime soon!

330 BC: Only few turns before I wanted to trade Nationalism from Cathy, she asks for Education -.- Of course I have to deny, as that is actually the only tech I have in advance from her and it's the one I wanted to trade, no she's only pleased again. Believe me, when there is one thing I hate the most in this whole game, then it's some f*cked up Civs asking for the only valuable tech you have, totally screwing up relations! And on top of that, Cathy still says she got enough on her hands right now, this is gonna get really ugly I think...

And, btw.: I HAVE MARLBE NOW!!! *lol*

310 BC: VICCY DOWs ME! Again *lol*

300 BC: I finally have enough Espionage on Cathy to see the city of Arretium, and what do I find in it? Her complete SoD, waiting to attack Caesar XD Take a look at the Screen, if that'd have gone for me, I would not have had any chance at all XD Thank goodness that this crazy chick doesn't know what to do at all, she had Frederick as Worst Enemy, she asked me for a tech, but she attacks someone else, what the heck!



In the meantime, Mehmed is bombarding the defenses of Munich for me and I've split stacks to make sure, I get both, Munich and Berlin.

290 BC: Viccy's stack is spotted near Mansa XD "Remember Operation Human Shield Mansa?" XD



280 BC: Cyrus joins in on gangbanging Frederick, Hatty declares war on Caesar! Did you notice she's quite a warmonger and can be very stuborn? Btw, my girlfriend says she looks like "Sabrina Setlur", a german popstar, if you don't know her, google her, she has great hits like "Du liebst misch nischt" ("You don't love me" but with a terrible accent) XD

Btw, look what Viccy did to Mansa's LBs and Spearmen:



"You're playing Operation Human Shield just right Mansa!"

260 BC: Mansa loses Walata. I could have saved him by trading Engineering from Sulei or Peter for Education or PP but now I have the chance to conquer the city back, liberate it again and get better relations with Mansa while still waiting for the Nationalism trade with Cathy, which all together would mean a quite significant tech-lead for me!

Same turn, I attack Munich! Again, it's heavy Ownage of the CR-Maces, the only Unit I lose is an Elephant.



In that fight, another GG arises named NEBUCHADREZZAR II!



I'm teching Gunpowder btw atm as Constitution would be crap having the Mids, can't tech Military Tradition as Cathy still is only pleased with me and not trading Nationalism, can't tech Economy as I don't get Banking as Lizzy is only cautious and I do not even have Guilds atm and can't tech Astronomy as I don't wanna trade Optics for Education. I wanna hold it back as long as possible to get the most of it, you know my deals, getting 5 techs for only 1. If I was playing that round now, I would perhaps have traded Education away as the AI's got quite a lot money i. e. 500 + a tech would be a good trade imho but as Wastin would say I was "very stingy" at that time.




250 BC: Oh, wtf is that? Viccy has got Education? WTF! I decide to trade instantly before she does any trades with it. Mansa has done it btw to get Engineering somehow, I trade Education vs Engineering with Mansa and Education vs Optics + 700g with Peter. And, I get Failgold from the sixtine Chappel Mansa constructed using a GE last turn, research again at 100%, and, finally, I got Trebs!

240 BC: I trade Optics to Mansa for another 600g, I'm getting 59 GPT through Ressource trade atm and 67 GPT through the ToS.

230 BC: Optics for 700g + Revolution to Cyrus.

220 BC: The whipping for Oxoford starts! I can finally whip all 8 Universities required, so I do so. Viccy btw is willing to make peace with me, why did she declare war on me in the first place? Nono Viccy, go home, as long as you have one XD Another nice thing btw is that Napoleon founded a city having Silver, I finally have the 3 Forge Happiness Ressources, this will help with the cities I've let grow in the time passed. Even after the Universiy whips the core cities are size 9-13 right now.

210 BC: Cyrus liberates his oversee Colonies, Saladin joins the illustrious round :> Mansa once again has show he is an awesome trader, he aquired Nationalism somehow, if I can't trade with Cathy, I'm gonna get it from him :> Having Mansa as a Vassal really has it's good and it's bad sides, he's researching slowly and trying to achieve a cultural victory against me, but again, he's hell of a trader, being pleased - friendly with almost everyone and trading anything for everything.

Same turn, I conquer Walata, you know, the city Mansa had lost, and gift it back to him.

190 BC: Suleiman asks for PP, "Sure Sulei, first culturebomb my Oxford-city and then getting a tech for free, I'll show you what I have for you..."

Gunpowder + PP against Nationalism with Mansa. But wait, where has Mansa gotten Nationalism again? NOEZ! He got it from Lizzy! Now Lizzy is 22 turns from Economics, and I still do not even have Guilds! I need that GM from Economics for Sushi, this is gonna get really ugly now... I gift PP to Napoleon, so he researches Guilds faster, but that didn't do anything... I stop research completely to be able to research Banks + Economics with 100%...

180 BC: My few Cats finally have bombarded away the defenses of the hill city Berlin, now is the time for the attack, this is gonna get bloody I think...





HAHA! Only unit I lose again is a damn Elephant and 2 suicide-pults, the Maces rock hard again XD Berlin has a settled GG, is coastal and has great Sea-Ressources, a really nice city. In the meantime, Sulei's stack has reached Hamburg. I do not think he's going to win, so I let him the primacy.

170 BC: Sulei suicides his SoD to Fredericks LBs, this is nice, just 2 more cities and 1 has just gotten for free...

160 BC: NOEZ! Frederick capitulates to Suleiman! This is not fair, Sulei has not even conquered a single city!!! No I'm really pissed of, Berlin is totally suppressed by the cultural borders of Hamburg, Sulei has a Vassal I wanted to annihilate from the earth, Sulei bombed my Oxford city, no, this is too much! I immediately prepare war-plans against Sulei! Doesn't matter now that he's not the best target and that I first have to finish the war against Viccy, he's gonna be next after her, I swear a bloodoath with my warriors on that!

150 BC: Cathy gets another Peacevassal, Washington has decided this world is not safe enough for his people. Worst thing: Now that Frederick is a Vassal of Suleiman and the cultural Borders of Hamburg are suppressing Berlin, I CAN'T TRANSPORT MY TROOPS OUT ON THE LAND WAY!!! WTF!!! I even gift some Techs to Frederick, but he won't let me out! I have to take f*cking Galleons to transport them to Munich!!!



Now this is just too much for me. And, Lizzy is 15 turns from Economics, but, I've aquired 2500g and, Napoleon finally has Guilds, I trade it from him against Optics + Gunpowder and start researching Banking...

140 BC: Lizzy needs 14 turns to Economics, I need 13 if I can maintain 100% research... I trade Paper to Washington for 200g + a double revolution... I also trade Paper to Mehmed for 200g + a revolution... I'm gonna need every gold now I can get, as I'm doing 800 BPT with a loss of 200 GPT atm...

120 BC: Nebuchadrezzar has become a Supermedic, and... : I've chopped the Taj Mahal XD I only say 1000 BPT!!! Bye bye Lizzy, see you later... XD

110 BC: I trade Guilds for 1000g + a double revolution to Peter.

100 BC: A GS is born. Same turn, Hatty asks for War against Caesar, I say Yes.

90 BC: Another 1000g through trading Opics and Banking.

80 BC: Hatty makes Peace with Caesar *lolz* . Thx Hatty for dragging me into this war when you wanted to leave it, I'm gonna have my revenge for that too, you get on the list after Sulei -.-

70 BC: Cyrus and Saladin join in on Viccy and Hatty declares War on them? WTF? Same Turn, I trade Guilds for another 1000g + some revolutions.

50 BC: After a long journey, where my troops even had to be transported over the seas (...) my troops have finally reached the english city of Hastings... Now I have Trebs, this is no fun anymore:





Again, not a single loss thx to Trebs + CR-Maces, but tons of promotions to CR3. The holy City of Christianity has fallen, the Jews have won! Viccy capitulates immediately.



I accept, as I want to fasten up the round, and because she's a strong Vassal and because I have got the holy city from her, no need for more, though London would be nice, but there's no time for that! After the capitulation, I trade Banking + Gunpowder for Divine Right, Viccy was the first to have it, no I have good tradegood again, though I really don't need it atm, doing 1100 BPT with -200 GPT having 5000 (!) gold atm!

40 BC: Frederick and Suleiman declare War on Hatty! That's good, because, if I think about it, Hatty is on the way to Sulei, let's just vassalize her on the way. I instantly declare war on her, so that my vassals can do some work for me before I reach her.

30 BC: I WIN THE ECONOMICS RACE! WOUHOU! I get the free GM I need for Sushi, and, revolution to Free Market instantly brings another 70 BPT! I gift it to all my Vassals, so that they research faster.

1 AD: My troops have reached Hatty. Just a single Screen I wanted to show you to end this part of Replay #2:



Enjoy the 1200 BPT XD Btw, Alexandria falls this Turn with 2 Knight losses, again the mounted Units... I don't say they're bad, as they're fast, but they're also weak...



Those were the years 500 - 1 AD, hope you enjoyed reading again, save is attached this time. Cya

Seraiel
 

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Just put the darn pictures in spoilers. That way it doesn't matter how big the picture is - the text will wrap to the screen normally. When you open the spoiler, the picture will be full size but when the spoiler is closed, the screen won't need to be scrolled to read the text. Sheesh.
 
Just put the darn pictures in spoilers. That way it doesn't matter how big the picture is - the text will wrap to the screen normally. When you open the spoiler, the picture will be full size but when the spoiler is closed, the screen won't need to be scrolled to read the text. Sheesh.

4h of work for this comment :( But it's a good tip, thx.
 
Wow, this thread actually has some readers besides me and WastinTime O_o :D I'm just experiencing troubles with newly installed BUG / BULL Mod to be able to play not only HoF but also Forum games, I'll post the next update after I was able to fix them, will be soon, I promise.



I will think about that too, but letting Mansa have Currency isn't a good idea imho. He trades with anybody, sometimes even for gold, so I couldn't trade for as much gold if he had Currency and all Civs sooner or later would have it too then, and I need a high value tech to recover from my ultra-expansion on Huge maps where I expand to 15-20 cities by 1500 BC. Still having Currency then pays out big time, as I normally get Math, Calendar, CoL and Monarchy for it, so I can hold Aesthetics to myself. If everyone would have gotten Currency by then from Mansa, I would be in big trouble then.



5 gold sounds awesome, I'll think about playing that game, as I've finished my last round today and am looking towards playing with a different leader. Biggest advantage I see for Praets on Marathon is, that one has them earlier then Elephants, with HC I normally get Elephants about 1000 BC, I get IW at least 1000y earlier then that. Imho you should also give Oracle -> Currency a thought, it has revolutionized my games, I wasn't joking when I said to Wastin that this was the best tip I've gotten in long time. CoL is normally easily aquirable by trade once cities have reached the status where they have the time for building the courthouses, because normal BO for me is Granary -> Library / Barracks -> Courthouses. Skipping Granaries doesn't sound like a good idea to me, though you have come up with some very unusual ideas that have proven right lately, might be worth testing on Marathon. Did I get that right that your game has Barbs on? For HoF you should always turn them off imho, as you need way less units in the beginning then, lowering the maintenance. Biggest disadvantages I see for Julius or Augustus is hoever, that they start without Mysticism, so founding an early religion is impossible, my games still rely heavily on getting a Shrine by 1500 BC.



I will take the critique and improve for the next post ;)

Greetz, Seraiel

Oddly enough, barbs help since it allows you to get to woodsman II warriors, though it is a gamble. As the Romans, a mining-first civ, that can research BW immediately, it's not a problem.

I've really wanted a marble, 2-3 gold start. Haven't had a chance for that though.

With the Incans, you have to build granaries since they double as monuments.

The logic is this:

With Quechua rush, you're very early-hammer efficient. Quechuas are as good, if not better than IMP at expanding. However, Quechuas are EXTREMELY commerce-intensive due to unit maintenance costs.

As a result, Oracle -> Currency is the way to go. Furthermore, you can afford granaries and libraries.

With Praets, they're much less hammer-efficient early game. So to get the initial rush out early, you can't afford granaries because each granary costs 2 praets. Also, you need BW for chops instead of Priesthood for Oracle and Commerce. However, praets are VERY commerce-efficient. So you don't need libraries or Currency as much (though it certainly helps a lot).

EDIT: Finally, since you're ORG, instead of FIN, you don't need cottages or large cities. This is another reason for delaying granaries. ORG and fast courthouses support horizontal growth (lots of smaller cities). FIN supports vertical growth (fewer large cities with cottages).
 
Oddly enough, barbs help since it allows you to get to woodsman II warriors, though it is a gamble. As the Romans, a mining-first civ, that can research BW immediately, it's not a problem.

Look at the post I made in your thread. Even got a WM3 Warrior for HE, but actually I had to pay tons of maintenance for Units in Order to keep the Barbs out, and they took the Iron with a city, so I couldn't even get to Praets. In addition, Charles had lvl 5 promoted Archers in his cities as he was attacked hard by Barbs and won most of the fights, I really don't think that Barbs help more then they hurt. Stealing Warriors is easy, steal 2 or more when DoWing and / or use Chariots.

I've really wanted a marble, 2-3 gold start. Haven't had a chance for that though.

With the Romans, starting with Fishing, I would also think about a coastal Gold-Start having some Seafood, that might be really strong as you can start growing your City immediately and don't need to steal / produce Workers early.

With the Incans, you have to build granaries since they double as monuments.

The logic is this:

With Quechua rush, you're very early-hammer efficient. Quechuas are as good, if not better than IMP at expanding. However, Quechuas are EXTREMELY commerce-intensive due to unit maintenance costs.

As a result, Oracle -> Currency is the way to go. Furthermore, you can afford granaries and libraries.

With Praets, they're much less hammer-efficient early game. So to get the initial rush out early, you can't afford granaries because each granary costs 2 praets. Also, you need BW for chops instead of Priesthood for Oracle and Commerce. However, praets are VERY commerce-efficient. So you don't need libraries or Currency as much (though it certainly helps a lot).

EDIT: Finally, since you're ORG, instead of FIN, you don't need cottages or large cities. This is another reason for delaying granaries. ORG and fast courthouses support horizontal growth (lots of smaller cities). FIN supports vertical growth (fewer large cities with cottages).

Sounds logic to me. Anyhow, I think not getting Granaries up hurts you more then it helps, remember, having a Granary you can whip twice as hard, and whipping (besides chopping) still is the biggest production ressource there is. And you're right, ORG of course makes CHs much more attractive, but if you have the chance to take Currency, it's still better because you get the benefits instant and they are much greater then the ones from CHs. Just think of trading techs for money, trading ressources for money, the additional TRs also help but it's the first two that make the big difference. Anyhow, getting Oracle at all seems to be quite difficult with rome as they start without Mysticism.

And: I'm more for many big-cities then fewer small ones :p

[EDIT]

For map-making, I hope you know map-finder ... (I didn't at first :D)
 
After WastinTime told me it was possible to Oracle Currency, it made no sense to continue this replay. But, after quite some time, I have a surprise for you :D :

Replay #3 is going online in about the next few hours! Game got accepted in HoF, and this time, it's getting "a little bit closer" :p

Here are some spoilers:

Spoiler :

Bismarck goes crazy and bribes 6 AIs against me :D Come'on Bissy, I was just looking for some nice 1:1, you're a dirty Zergling!
I take Fredericks DoW as a cheap invite to invade his Berlin :)
Oracle -> Currency
, I need moe money! Frederick, can you borrow me some? :D
I loose the Music Race! How can that be!
Hinduism makes the world go round.
Frederick peacevassals to me after having lost his Capital and being treated badly. Let's forget the old differences, can't we all be happy afterall? ;)
5 GPs in 1 GA? :eek: 10 GP in 2 GAs? :eek: :eek: Where is this leading to...
SUSHI!111
Oh , screwed up again, I'M BROKE!
Oh nice, I can build Wealth :D
Where are all these peacevassals coming from? Leave me alone, I built these units for a purpose...
Hamburg 30M Inhabitants? :D "Nearly" like in reality :p
Oh noez, not again, I'm winning too early...


I won't talk about which Score I got this time, as this will be the prequel to a coming up strategy article, so suspect it to be "ok" at least :D

See you all soon!
 
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