[RFC DoC] The Egyptian Exodus: Far Far South

[Spirictum]

Let me do the honours.





No offense to Spirictum of course, he surely wasn't the only one who grossly misjugded what my Stability would look like in the twelve-hundreds. Shame Stability checks can't trigger positive events when you have a good score.

I'm not thoroughly checking your updates, but I'm still pretty sure your stability isn't growing just because the game is simply going forward. That doesn't mean I thought your stability wouldn't be ok by the twelve-hundreds.

Making a deeper analysis on your stability:

- Your domestic stability seems normal for this time of the game. You have religious unity, surplus happiness in several cities with more then the average pop/city ratio and a good civic combo (this last one is really easy by this era);

- Your Economy Stability is impressive, congratulations which I'd suppose is entirely related to the Great Lighthouse. Your economic Growth factor is normal, and will suffer fluctuations now and then, so be careful with plagues;

- Your Foreign Stability is the most impressive of all. You still don't have any Vassals, no Defensive Pacts, so this is completely tied to OBs with most civs you know, and more importantly with civs that have a different State Religion. May I presume that you purposedly keep units on far away places so you can keep contact with civs? Now this rises some questions, I'll go there to the DoC forums ask about them.


Now this means something really important:

- Civic Combos start to become a problem in the transition started in the renaissance. When you can finally adopt more modern civics this will become ok again;

- The Great Lighthouse will eventually become obsolete, and then I believe managing to get that high Trade Stability bonus will become tougher;

- Every plague will temporarily crush your Economic Growth Stability factor, so you'll have to be careful when these happen;


If you manage these well you'll survive until the end. OTOH your inflation is becoming a more serious problem. I'm not sure in 1.12, but in the revision we're playing on the Caliphate there is a factor for inflation that, if present on 1.12, must have been triggered for you without your notice. It's a population trigger to inflation. In our case, if any civ has more then 120 population on the Medieval Era, a factor enters into motion which accelerates the inflation growth. For old civs like ours (Egypt and Arabia) it's a really important factor to care about.

 

[Sinsyne]

I'm not thoroughly checking your updates

BLASPHEME!

- Your Economy Stability is impressive, congratulations which I'd suppose is entirely related to the Great Lighthouse. Your economic Growth factor is normal, and will suffer fluctuations now and then, so be careful with plagues;

I also trade resources wherever I can, after that spawn in 1102 and taking Egypt+Ethiopia I have an absurd amount of surplus.
I went through the second plague and I can tell you already it will leave extremely little damage. I have a boatload of health ressources, granaries, grocers, lighthouses everywhere. My cities maintained positive health even while they were hit by the plague. It neither lasted long nor spread far.

Your Foreign Stability is the most impressive of all. You still don't have any Vassals, no Defensive Pacts, so this is completely tied to OBs with most civs you know, and more importantly with civs that have a different State Religion. May I presume that you purposedly keep units on far away places so you can keep contact with civs? Now this rises some questions, I'll go there to the DoC forums ask about them.

This is correct. I have an axeman in India since early in the game, a Woodsman II scout and a warrior popped from a hut in eastern Asia. A galley is driving back and forth between Portugal and Poland to maintain contact with the European civs; that was the Very Important Project(TM) in Jerusalem earlier in the game. In my first play at DoC I failed keeping contact with post-Roman civs in Europe as ships can't round the west of Africa and I couldn't get through the Levant on land. Things are much better now.

If you manage these well you'll survive until the end. OTOH your inflation is becoming a more serious problem. I'm not sure in 1.12, but in the revision we're playing on the Caliphate there is a factor for inflation that, if present on 1.12, must have been triggered for you without your notice. It's a population trigger to inflation. In our case, if any civ has more then 120 population on the Medieval Era, a factor enters into motion which accelerates the inflation growth. For old civs like ours (Egypt and Arabia) it's a really important factor to care about.

Well, if it already happened and I don't know the exact mechanics and time when it did so there's little I can do about it, I'll just have to keep doing as I do now: outpace the rising inflation. I will get some big boosts soon enough.

 

[Spirictum]

BLASPHEME!

Sorry sorry! I promise I'll do it properly from now on master!

I also trade resources wherever I can, after that spawn in 1102 and taking Egypt+Ethiopia I have an absurd amount of surplus.
I went through the second plague and I can tell you already it will leave extremely little damage. I have a boatload of health ressources, granaries, grocers, lighthouses everywhere. My cities maintained positive health even while they were hit by the plague. It neither lasted long nor spread far.

Oh plagues have an interesting effect: While they occur, you will experience a decrease in Economic Stability, but when it stops, you naturally get a boost again, so the idea is just to avoid decreasing your stability by other means while a plague occurs.

About resources I believe this doesn't matter at all. In Leoreth's Stability Guide for 1.12 it doesn't say a word about Resource Trades, only Trade Routes. Trading resources favor Open Borders to some extent, and Open Borders enable Trade Routes, so indirectly it has an effect, but it's minimal. Your real triumph is the Great Lighthouse.

 

[Sinsyne]

I would have assumed the extensive resource/money trading to have an effect, but maybe it is just the number of trade routes. In that case the extra two from San Marco Basilica were a nice boost too.

A word on paths not taken:



My initial plan was to settle the Americas and Oceania, go big and grab the best city spots before anyone else comes close, aiming for a later Domination victory. I had Astronomy in the 12-hundreds and could have started shipping settlers there. But Astronomy obsoletes the Colossus and with all my water tiles I found this shaved off about 15% of my commerce after upkeep and inflation. Together with the trouble of later spawns I decided this expansion isn't worth its price after all and reoriented my approach with a different gameplan and delaying the discovery of Astronomy far back.

Of course you are free to speculate what my new plan and research path might be, I can tell it's developing nicely so far.

 

[Spirictum]

Still aim for a domination victory, but getting Africa, the Mideast (historical) and going east for colonization. On techs I guess you'll aim on Printing Press for the boost and Education -> Liberalism to fight the inflation effect on your research rate (by getting more and a Free Tech). Philosophy is easy to buy from someone else, as it's required for Liberalism along with Education.

Have I come close to it?

 

[Manuss]

Banking and then build banks everywhere?

 

[Sinsyne]

Banking and then build banks everywhere?

Correct, I ignored Optics and went for Banking. You actually already saw that happening in the last update so it's not much of a guess

Still aim for a domination victory, but getting Africa, the Mideast (historical) and going east for colonization.

There is quite a bit of truth in that. Perhaps even in a way you hadn't intended.

On techs I guess you'll aim on Printing Press for the boost

Quite far off. I'll post a complete map of my empire and the individual city screens next time. Printing Press would actually give me a very small boost only, I don't have a single cottage in sub-Saharan Africa as I lack grassland and need the food from farms(also, I run Agrarianism). I've only begun building cottages in Egypt now with its flood plains.

and Education -> Liberalism to fight the inflation effect on your research rate (by getting more and a Free Tech). Philosophy is easy to buy from someone else, as it's required for Liberalism along with Education.

Good, though going for the Lib race is hardly a surprise. The better question is: which free tech would I take and where will I go from there?

I will come up with a reward if anyone should figure it out, maybe name a city for the winner.

 

[Spirictum]

Good, though going for the Lib race is hardly a surprise. The better question is: which free tech would I take and where will I go from there?

I will come up with a reward if anyone should figure it out, maybe name a city for the winner.

To me it's Economics. It requires banking, which is the last tech on your research bar that we may see, it'll give you a Great Merchant (so you may solve economic problems due to Inflation) and it'll also let you run Capitalism, which is required to trigger that random event Federal Reserve, which let you decrease your Inflation by 15%.

 

[Sinsyne]

I don't think that would be a good idea. It requires Astronomy, which obsoletes the Colossus, Economics itself obsoletes castles and you said yourself it is due to excess trade routes my Stability is so good. I wasn't aware though that event is linked to the Capitalism civic, so thanks for that.

I'll give a hint: the tech itself isn't the gamechanger, it is just a necessary step towards a much bigger goal.

 

[Sinsyne]

Pharao's Log, 1141 ADA

After a rather dismal first performance Byzantium isn't too embarrassed to try again. Let's see how it goes this time.



Pharao's Log, 1108 ADA

Egypt is at the top of the world(figuratively, they decided to put north up on the map) and more advanced than anyone else out there. Yay!



Pharao's Log, 1159 ADA

The San Marco Basilica was completed and greatly boosted our trade(again, don't ask).



Pharao's Log, 1168 ADA

Just as I was feasting on these freshly cultivated bananas I received news Byzantium converted to my faith. Perhaps this Orthodoxy thing lost its appeal given how well it did them last time. It seems before learning their mistake they had already lost their namesake capital. Now they go by the Empire of Nicaea.



Also, while taking a wrong left turn in my spacious double-palace(the Apostolic one is just adjoined to the western wing) I happened across the scientist Manetho. It seems I had all forgotten about him for oh, a little more than three hundred years. But that luckily gave him plenty time to think about proper Education so good for me.



Pharao's Log, 1171 ADA

These ideas brought us into the Renaissance soon enough. I'm not entirely sure what that is referring to though.



Pharao's Log, 1189 ADA

The thing I always missed - Music! Ever since those gentle chants in the Church of the Holy Sepultura I knew there must be more out there and India sold us the secret.



Pharao's Log, 1195 ADA

I have met the Mongols after hearing much of their military might. They are said to be fierce warriors on mighty steeds, plundering and destroying all they come across with a mix of barbarity and comedy. It seems many other people are suffering under their onslaught.



My attempt to leverage my papal influence into changing the balance of power in Europe failed, narrowly.



Pharao's Log, 1198 ADA

The power of the Mongols proves indeed to be formidable, but they are distant to my luck. They have also picked up the Orthodox faith to my dismay.



Pharao's Log, 1204 ADA

Ten million! That's quite a number, isn't it? But perhaps not more than the stars in the sky yet. My scholars are still counting.



Pharao's Log, 1210 ADA

Once again China falls, this time to the might of the Mongol riders. My scouts witnessed the power of their army and reported it as suitably impressive.



Pharao's Log, 1216 ADA

Not to be outdone we developed a new form of weaponry to reform our military. Everything is better with explosions. Especially the corpses of my enemies.



Pharao's Log, 1222 ADA

Once again pirates tried to harass our waters but they were dealt with quickly.



Pharao's Log, 1228 ADA

Genghis Khan is getting cheeky. I just laughed him out of the room. He gave me some crazy talk about revenge and the temperature of foodstuffs. Whatever. Is he perhaps confusing himself with another Khan?



Pharao's Log, 1231 ADA

I promised Hypatia I wouldn't forget him as long as I did his predecessor. I might or might not keep that promise.

 

[Sinsyne]

Pharao's Log, 1249 ADA

Apparently the first time went so well Arabia decided to have a second war with me. That doesn't strike me as prudent on their part but whatever, my armies could use a workout. Let them come.



Their invasion force felt rather unimpressive to my eyes. A decent enough number of siege engines, but a wholly inadequate field army.



Pharao's Log, 1258 ADA

We suffered some losses but the Arabian invasion force has been greatly reduced and their fleet trying to block Makkah's harbor sunk.



Pharao's Log, 1264 ADA

It is done, the Arab forces are crushed.



Pharao's Log, 1291 ADA

A new threat rises in the north, the Turks. These are apparently not the same as the Seljuk Turks who had given the Persian empire great trouble. They like the Arabs follow the teachings of Islam and seem quite intent of having us do the same.




The once mighty Babylon opened its doors to them, greatly weakening the Arabs. Persian Sur required a more forceful argument to join them.



Pharao's Log, 1305 ADA

Makkah now holds my summer residence so I can better control my holdings far to the north of our capital. Also, given the result of the last time I resided up here for a while it bears repetition. You don't father a religion venerating you as a god every day(pun intended). Not to mention Dat Ass.



Pharao's Log, 1315 ADA

It took some digging but we now have a canal to cross into the enclosed sea to the north which will make interaction with the states there easier. Of course, we shouldn't have forgotten about building a bridge over that canal too...



Pharao's Log, 1321 ADA

Our military technology is improving by leaps and bounds and I plan on building an academy with the veterans from the latest war as instructors. This means beating up the Arabs some more instead of accepting their offers of peace. I can live with that.




Pharao's Log, 1330 ADA

Spain's knowledge of Optics doesn't come cheap, but there's no helping it.




Pharao's Log, 1336 ADA

Turkey remains on the rise, taking the city of Constantinopolis from the Persians. Something feels wrong about that but I can't put my finger on what exactly it is.




Pharao's Log, 1339 ADA

Our continued war has paid off and the most seasoned veterans are now teaching in the Royal Military Academy.




Pharao's Log, 1348 ADA

Far to the west we have discovered new land. At first it was just a small disappointing island but there seems to be more beyond. We will continue to explore.




Pharao's Log, 1351 ADA

The art of Philosophy is spreading amongst our scholars and Aristotle told me of their wisdoms. I suggested to him to ammend 'fear of the law' to 'fear of beheading'. He seemed reluctant, but then agreed with a fearful look in his eyes. I wonder why.



My army is marching on Sana'a. That city has long been an annoyance because it challenges the fishing grounds to the east of Aksum, hampering the growth of the former Ethiopian capital. I shall do something about that.



The first offensive action of our soldiers equipped with muskets and gunpowder artillery was a resounding success. Quite literally in the case of the bombards, that's quite the whallop when they fire. Sana'a was burned to the ground.



Arabia, thoroughly beaten, offered me whatever they could to finally end the war.



However I had no intention of dealing with one of their subpar cities or to keep their sorry remains as my vassal, so I decided to be more generous in the terms.

 

[Manuss]

 

[Sinsyne]

That will come should India declare war on me or otherwise mess things up

 

[Alexius08]

What are your plans for the New World civs?

 

[Sinsyne]

Nothing much really. I can get the Conqueror event but the cities I could take are not really worth keeping and would cost me too much money when I'm already having to work for a decent research percentage to stay at the top of the game. If the New World wonders requiring corn could be built without the Pantheon civic I'd perhaps be more tempted to go colonial here.

 

[Sinsyne]

A short overview of my empire.




Jerusalem suffers from a lack of workable tiles but once I win the culture war for the fish it can grow better. Obelisk got destroyed by an enemy spy.


I don't think Mekkah needs explanation. With time it will have enough cultural pressure to control most of the peninsula without taking any of the unimpressive cities there. Summer Palace was a quite worthwhile investment and strongly reduced my maintenance. Wonder why the oasis is worked instead of the sheep though.


Hey, look, I control Egypt


Normally I always build Niwt-Rst but I'm getting increasingly fond of coastal Djanet, especially with my Warships quest-Colossus-Great Lighthouse combination. Fun fact, I hadn't built a single cottage before settling here 4000 years into the game. Djanet grows fast and will become a splendid center of commerce. Production is less impressive but once Steam Power comes around the city can truly shine.


Yebu makes good use of the tiles left over by Djanet. It will never be a too impressive city but still acceptable.


With the fish freed up from those pesky Arabs Aksum will grow a bit faster. Got some nice production here.






I really like Imu. Settle on resource, seven 3 3 water tiles, a grassland banana, river grassland and lots of plain hills for production. Even better once I can remove that jungle.


Yeah, my oldest cities run out of buildings to build regularly so they instead boost my income a bit.




Thanks to plantation resources I could get rid of three jungles in Djeba's BFC, makes stopping the Impis a lot easier. This will one day be a quite nice city.


Nekhen suffers from slow growth, lacking any tile with more than 2 until Biology. Still, it's a decent city I guess.




Akhetaten is a bit weaker than the later Zawty but still has all the boons of a coastal city going for it.


My city placement left two grasslands, a crab and two whales unused which hurt especially given food is the thing my cities lack most but I found no alternative setup appealing.


Per-Bastet is a bit weak in production but with lots of sea and two diamond mines quite good in commerce.



My capital of course is something else entirely. It is nearing its size limit sadly but does splendidly in giving me beakers, gold, production and a steady supply of Great People.

 

[GreekAnalyzer]

Are you going to move your capital due to matinence savings?

 

[Sinsyne]

No, that would lose me the Absolutism bonus in Abdju(40% 40% ). That is huge as despite the size of my empire Abdju produces about half my income; Absolutism, settled Great Merchant, San Marco, Catholicism shrine.


I intend to keep running Absolutism until victory despite the Stability penalty.

And remember, I got the Summer Palace in Makkah. That already greatly reduced my distance maintenance.

 

[GreekAnalyzer]

Ah I see, makes sense.

 

[Spirictum]

What has happened Sinsyne? Has Inflation ruined your Exodites? Old Civs' Inflation Rates are the worst killers on DoC it seems to me