RFCEurope 1.4

[Force44]

Used to work out smoothly a lot of times for me with Ishbiliyah.

Yup, because it is a capitol. The suggestion implies expanding the list of available targets for a crusade to all cities with AA in their cultural sphere of influence (not mereley the capitols).

(And even then I consider it still only a partial solution.)

 

[Force44]

question for Spain:
Make catholicism the only religion in the Iberian peninsula, and spread Catholicism to all the cities on the Iberian peninsula in 1492AD.

I am catholic and I am the only civivilization alive in the Iberian peninsula and all the cities on the peninsula have catholicism but some cities also have Judaism and/or Orthodoxy and/or Islam. Do I need to purge those religions for completion of the UHV?

(the UHV currently is green so I suppose not)

If indeed not, perhaps that could be changed (so that Catholicism needs to be the only religion in the Iberian Peninsula for the Spanish UHV)

 

[Hightower]

I like this idea in addition to the current arabian UP (perhaps even as a bonus for islamic civs).

Every new (so a city can yield this bonus only once) city with a different religion you conquer raises your stability by +1 for 10 turns (cululative).
(so conquering a second city after conquering the first gives +2 for an additional 10 turns.)

In theory this is interesting but creates a real risk of Arabia (or Cordoba, or anyone else) simply snowballing over the entire board. There needs to be some kind of cap to the boost you can get.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

So the civilopedia mentions that the first few barbarian battles will always be victories. How many battles? When is it not always going to be a victory?

 

[AbsintheRed]

In theory this is interesting but creates a real risk of Arabia (or Cordoba, or anyone else) simply snowballing over the entire board. There needs to be some kind of cap to the boost you can get.

Agreed, this isn't something I'm looking for.
ATM I'm thinking about an early conquest boost (as a general rule), for cities acquired in the first x turns after spawn.
What makes it a little difficult is the the variance in the number of flipped cities in the different core areas.

So the civilopedia mentions that the first few barbarian battles will always be victories. How many battles? When is it not always going to be a victory?

Ohh, that's outdated information.
RFCE do not have free barb wins since version 1.0 or 1.1.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

Ah okay. I noticed a few issues with the civilopedia, such as it mentioning America and the Romans and whatnot, showing it being ripped from RFC.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Tigranes]

I fully understand why would anyone connect Zealand with Sweden -- but it looks so awfully unrealistic and plain ugly! Please connect Baltic sea back to the Northern Sea and therefore Ocean. Danish already control straits thanks to their culture.

Also where is Burgundy on 1260 map?

 

[Force44]

In theory this is interesting but creates a real risk of Arabia (or Cordoba, or anyone else) simply snowballing over the entire board. There needs to be some kind of cap to the boost you can get.

Agreed, this isn't something I'm looking for.
ATM I'm thinking about an early conquest boost (as a general rule), for cities acquired in the first x turns after spawn.
What makes it a little difficult is the the variance in the number of flipped cities in the different core areas.

I like the idea of cumulative temporary stability upon conquest for (most) islamic civs because it will allow the creation of empires like these (see picture -> http://i.imgur.com/uJAEB.jpg)

Note especially the short timespan of occupation.

Of course a player could do better and conquer an even larger empire (in a very short timespan) but I think it is only nice if a player can fulfill the ambitions of the muslim generals of that time.

I'm not sure if this bonus will enable the player to conquer the entire map (there are other things besides stability that limit the extent on conquests) but if it does I think capping the bonus would indeed solve the problem. Although personally I'd be in favour of nerfing the bonus in stead of capping it (cumulatively decrease the increase of bonus to stability and/or duration)

Absinthered stated that he is looking for a bonus that is more confined by gametime (the first few turns) and more permanent (early conquest boost for cities acquired) and related to the number of cities flipped in the different core areas.

The first two parameters could be easily incorporated (conceptually, it may still be a heck of a job to code the stuff) The third parameter I'm not so sure about as I don't know what kind of correlation he is looking for (strenght and direction) between the number of cities flipped and the bonus that is to be received for cities conquered early in the game.

Still I am optimistic that Absinthered already conceived a different mechanic that achieves a similar objective for the very first turns as Absinthered stated he is looking for an early conquest boost (as a general rule) . I am curious to find out what he will cook up.

summary:

I'm not entirely sure/convinced about the validity of the criticism on the mechanism but it appears a superior mechanism is already in development.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Ah okay. I noticed a few issues with the civilopedia, such as it mentioning America and the Romans and whatnot, showing it being ripped from RFC.

Some of the texts was updated recently.
Did you find those mistakes in the Civilopedia?

I fully understand why would anyone connect Zealand with Sweden -- but it looks so awfully unrealistic and plain ugly! Please connect Baltic sea back to the Northern Sea and therefore Ocean. Danish already control straits thanks to their culture.

Well, it's still connected. Aesthetically not the best, but perfectly working gameplay-wise.
Also it's nothing new. Represented this way since RFCE 1.1.

Also where is Burgundy on 1260 map?

We have an 1200AD map.

 

[Force44]

I fully understand why would anyone connect Zealand with Sweden -- but it looks so awfully unrealistic and plain ugly! Please connect Baltic sea back to the Northern Sea and therefore Ocean. Danish already control straits thanks to their culture.

It never bothered me much. But for aesthetics sake a resource (called Sont) could be placed on one of the tiles that currently graphically connects Sweden to Zealand to seperate them visually. (The Danish UP could even be disconnected from the civilization and tied to that resource instead.)

But this is only one of multiple similar cases. (eg the connection of Zealand to Fyn and Fyn to Jutland and on the other side of the spectrum, the lack of connection between Holland and Friesland)

Having said that, if there is a graphics enthusiast out there who'd like to adress these (imo small) issues that would be icing on top of the cake.

 

[AbsintheRed]

It never bothered me much. But for aesthetics sake a resource (called Sont) could be placed on one of the tiles that currently graphically connects Sweden to Zealand to seperate them visually. (The Danish UP could even be disconnected from the civilization and tied to that resource instead.)

But this is only one of multiple similar cases. (eg the connection of Zealand to Fyn and Fyn to Jutland and on the other side of the spectrum, the lack of connection between Holland and Friesland)

It's there because of the AI, to not separate the core area of the Danish civ.
No connection with the Danish UP.

Holland on the other hand represents the post 1200 AD status, with the lake already gone.

Having said that, if there is a graphics enthusiast out there who'd like to adress these (imo small) issues that would be icing on top of the cake.

Yeah, it would be great to look into that too, was thinking (dreaming?) about it a couple times myself.
A special terrain feature, which can be put on the base terrain there.
Water going through diagonally, so we would need 4 separate ones for the 4 corners.

It's very low priority, but if noone takes it, I will probably try my hands on it eventually.
Also I'm by no means a graphics modder though, so not even sure if I'm able to do anything usable.

 

[Force44]

The shortest distance between Holland and Friesland post 1200AD (narrowest part of the Zuiderrzee) still is about the same distance as the Sont (16km)

I can think of no good reason to change the current situation (for the Netherlands) (besides consistency) though.

I hope I am not misunderstood with the idea of tying the bonus currently tied to the Danish UP to the location of the Danish civilization. I really like this UP, but the situation of Denmark having no acces to the Baltic and still being able to collect Sont dues on occasion comes across as a bit silly to me.

(it is (imo) a game though, not a simulation of reality, so a little bit of sillyness only makes for a better mod)

Yeah, it would be great to look into that too, was thinking (dreaming?) about it a couple times myself.
A special terrain feature, which can be put on the base terrain there.
Water going through diagonally, so we would need 4 separate ones for the 4 corners.

I can tell myself a hundred times that I value the gameplay this mod offers even more than its nice graphics, still, probably the truth is a graphic like this would be something I really appreciate.

So @ Absinthered You have my blessings and admiration for your ambitions with the mod (whatever they may be). I think RFCE has turned out as a really fun mod the way it is today and I believe your further efforts will continue to make it even better.

^
|

If the removal of a heart could be substituted by showing my appreciation this song by the Bee Gees would be really appropriate.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaXVkQruSao

edit: even with heart churgery only the last line of the refrain makes some sense.
It's only words, but words are all I have to show my appreciation​

 

[Tigranes]

We have an 1200AD map.

Ok, sorry, my bad. Can we go back to the actual question please?

 

[merijn_v1]

Ok, sorry, my bad. Can we go back to the actual question please?

There was no Burgundy in 1200 AD.

 

[gilgames]

The current island seems good and may fit in mod, but not with the current graphic. I can imagine them more green like and not only brown with sharp edges. However coun't find any image similar to my ideas. I know its hard and take many time make it smooth and fit.

 

[Tigranes]

There was no Burgundy in 1200 AD.

True. Not as a separate independent kingdom, but our civilizations are civilizations -- and Burgundian civilization was very much alive and kicking. As a matter of fact few centuries later your hometown was paying taxes to Burgundian Dukes, how about that?

Both Duchy and County of Burgundy enjoyed great degree of autonomy and certainly were present as "civilization" during 1200, albeit they can be represented as a vassal to France or Germany (HRE) in the scenario. Burgundy played critical role during the Hundred Years War, even capturing Paris.

During the Hundred Years' War, King John II of France gave the duchy to his youngest son, Philip the Bold, rather than leaving it for his successor on the French throne. The duchy soon became a major rival to the throne, because the Dukes of Burgundy succeeded in assembling an empire stretching from Switzerland to the North Sea, in large part by marriage. The Burgundian territories consisted of a number of fiefdoms on both sides of the (then largely symbolic) border between the Kingdom of France and the Holy Roman Empire. Its economic heartland was in the Low Countries, particularly Flanders and Brabant. The court in Dijon outshone the French court both economically and culturally. In Belgium and in the south of the Netherlands, a 'Burgundian lifestyle' still means 'enjoyment of life, good food, and extravagant spectacle'.

The existence of distinct Burgundian civilization up until 1678 therefore cannot be denied. Otherwise one can argue that it all ended back in 534, when the Franks defeated Godomar, the last Burgundian king, and absorbed the territory into their growing empire.

 

[Force44]

Both France and HRE were empires that were home to distinct civilizations. The Burgundian Netherlands in the Netherlands are seen as the first incarnation of the Netherlands (The 17 Provinces, the future countries of Netherlands and Belgium and arguably Luxemburg)

It raises the question if the Burgundian Netherlands are Burgundian or Dutch.

I suffered a Burgundian respawn when playing the 1200 AD scenario as the French. So they are in there.

They are just not playable (at the start).

You seem to prefer 1200AD as a starting date for the Burgundian civilization. But do you also have a second (later) choice?

 

[Tigranes]

I suffered a Burgundian respawn when playing the 1200 AD scenario as the French. So they are in there.

They are just not playable (at the start).

You seem to prefer 1200AD as a starting date for the Burgundian civilization. But do you also have a second (later) choice?

I am glad to know that respawn occurs. And no, I don't think Burgundy must restart with Philip the Bold. My point was that in feudal Europe and especially in HRE Count of Burgundy had more power over his lands than Emperor. And until Burgundy was completely absorbed in 17th century it was always there as a semi-independent civilization.

 

[Force44]

And a civilization important to the whole of europe. An important part of the Renaissance took place in the Burgundian Netherlands.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I am glad to know that respawn occurs. And no, I don't think Burgundy must restart with Philip the Bold. My point was that in feudal Europe and especially in HRE Count of Burgundy had more power over his lands than Emperor. And until Burgundy was completely absorbed in 17th century it was always there as a semi-independent civilization.

Oh, now I see your worries.
No need for them, Burgundy is still there, just doesn't start alive in 1200AD.
Apart from the normal respawns which can happen for every civ in the mod, there is even a special respawn for them (with much bigger chance to occur) around the historic start of the 100 years war, in the beginning of the 14th century.