Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Asclepius]

Let's see...

this unit may be a ranger, while this one could be modern infantry.

Or...
the last one for USMC and this one with no backpack could be a Special Force / Commando unit.

Oooh nice units!

I'd go for the first "Ranger" unit as the US UU and the Light Infantry by Balou as Modern Infantry. I also had a look around and thought this Russian Spetsnaz unit looks good. OK, so its Russian but it would still make a nice looking US UU as an alternative to the beret wearing Ranger unit.

 

[Metatr0n]

I would still prefer to see the US Marine Corps represented. Yes, you are right that many other nations have Marines, but the US has used the Marines since the very early 1900's to invade Cuba, the Phillipines, Nicaragua, Mexico, Grenada, Panama, Honduras, Haiti.....etc, etc. I think it would make a great late game unit for the US. It would make the US a late game threat to any Civ on the map (especially with the new naval rules). It would make the early turn boredem playing as America worth it, if you knew that later in the game you could build loads of kick-ass Marines that could go out around the world and break a few heads

Strange - I thought the US used marines (Continental Marines) as early as the war of independence and also in the first Barbary war to invade Tripoli. I still hate the idea of a Marine UU - I just don't see how the US marines differ significantly from other countries' marines. England would have a better claim to a marine UU that the US IMHO (not that I'd want to see that either).

 

[Asclepius]

Strange - I thought the US used marines (Continental Marines) as early as the war of independence and also in the first Barbary war to invade Tripoli. I still hate the idea of a Marine UU - I just don't see how the US marines differ significantly from other countries' marines. England would have a better claim to a marine UU that the US IMHO (not that I'd want to see that either).

Sorry, wasn't very clear. I didn't mean that was the first time the US marines were used. Simply that right from the start of the 20th Century they have been used regularly to invade dozens of countries and enforce US "Sphere of Influence" policy in the Americas and could therefore be considered a significant unit in US History. The difference with the US Marines compared to many other nations marines being that they have actually been regularly used as an offensive naval force, landing on beaches and acting like marines are supposed to!

 

[Rhye]

3 proposals:

1)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-Ranger = 10/10/1 + amphibious + paradrop (replaces mod.inf.)

2)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)

3)
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)
-Commando = 10/1/1 + stealth attack + invisible + very expensive

 

[Blasphemous]

Rhye, invisible land units are a bad idea, because of the sub bug they mean if anyone bumps into them there will be a declaration of war with no possibility of refusal (the window pop up again and again until you declare.) I would say add modern infantry with 12.10.1 and a short-range paradrop somewhere in the modern age, leave marines as they are, have american UU replace marines and have 14.6.1 with amphibious, and paradrop with range of 3. You could have their defense at 8 and then make them a bit extra expensive.
This will make them valuable and unique.

 

[Blasphemous]

Modern infantry should maybe have stealth attack to make them useful... I mean, modern units truly can choose what to target in their attacks... The ability could also be given to other modern units, to help promote combined arms.

 

[Khift]

3 proposals:

1)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-Ranger = 10/10/1 + amphibious + paradrop (replaces mod.inf.)

2)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)

3)
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)
-Commando = 10/1/1 + stealth attack + invisible + very expensive

I'm for the second option, as well as the possible addition of the Commando (10/1/1 + stealth attack) with a wonder of some kind.

 

[Blasphemous]

Rhye, is it at all possible to fix the game so I can continue playing, or does it require biq file changes as well as other things?

 

[Aeon221]

OPTION 2!!

Option 1's unit is simply not enough better to be worth inclusion, and with Option 3, invisible units suck... nuff said ;p

I also thought a British Colonial soldier was something we should think about, as they were CERTAINLY around longer than that more famous phenomenon, the longbow. With the M-o-W and a good cheap infantry the British would certainly be a force to be reckoned with in the pre-industrial era... but the Long Bow is more famous, so it has the right of way!

BUT in terms of making America really bloom in the later stages, a Marine UU would allow them to be a major P.I.T.A. to ANY coastal civs in the world, especially in the hands of a human.

Rhye, we need v4 soon! I'm going into withdrawl!

 

[Blasphemous]

Actually the Longbow can have a great impact on the game (in a way similar to history)... As France I was just about to invade England in the early middle ages when I realized I would not fare very well against them even with my knights. So I'm putting it off till we both have muskets (in my case special muskets ^^) and I have the grand battery, then I will have a true advantage. (Assuming I will ever be able to continue this game.)

 

[Lachlan]

As you want

 

[Horton]

Grand Battery is an excellent unit. In my recent test game as France, I found them to be extremely useful.

How are all of the modern era units balancing out? Has anyone finished a modern era game and have some feedback?

 

[Rhye]

I'm afraid that if the civilpedia automatically pops up making the game crash, the crash can't be avoided.
Will be fixed in 0.4, as soon as I get the definitive decision.

I'd like to hear Horton's opinion about American UU.
BTW, Horton if you haven't followed the discussion, the choice is between an upgraded modern infantry (ranger); an upgraded marine, the A-Bomb, the M1 Abrams or the AEGIS cruiser.

 

[Horton]

Rhye, I think you misnamed the guerilla unit as guerrilla. This is causing the game to crash.

On the subject of the American UU, I am not thrilled with any of those choices honestly. They already get the F-15 which is nearly useless. I would much prefer to see either a late medieval musket type like a Minuteman with a decent attack, low defense and ability to treat all as roads or perhaps a cavalry unit to modeled upon the cavalry that the United States used to scour the plains and west of american indians. Either of these would be preferable to having another late industrial or modern era unit that will be of extremely limited usefulness and short lifespan.

If I have to choose from the list I would rather see an upgraded marine because they would have the most flavor and utility and also because the US marine has a lot of mystique for americans and around the world.

 

[Horton]

One other thing, I love the grand battery but letting it treat all as roads is massively overpowering. I built a dozen and coupled with a cavalry army I became absolutely unstoppable. IMO, they should be movement 1 as all other comparable artillery.

 

[Aeon221]

I was wondering about that, actually... considering that Napoleon lost Waterloo on account of mud, it seemed odd to give his cannon the ability to march willy nilly across all terrain.

Stats (damage, range, ROF):
12.1.1 (Cannon)
12.1.2 (Grand Battery) All Terrain As Roads
12.1.1 (Hwatch'a) Lethal Land & Sea
16.2.2 (Artillery)

Granting GB Lethal Land and removing ATAR would seem like a decent tradeoff, as it lacks the Lethal Sea of the HWA, but has an increase ROF to compensate... although the utility of Lethal Sea for a 1 tile artillery is debatable.

Increasing range of GB to two tiles and taking away ATAR would also seem a decent trade off. Historically Napoleon's guns were of high quality, as were his gun crews, so this is one way to represent that.

Another option would be to increase general bombard strength by two and taking away ATAR. Again, its just a way of representing training and equipment quality.

Its pretty clear that I think ATAR needs to go. Horton has proved beyond a doubt that it is too fast to be included as is.

Something that would be cool, and perhaps worth including, would be an ATAR artillery unit, call it mobile cannon or something, that can move two squares. It would have to have lower stats (and probably the same cost), but would be more useful for rapid campaigns. I know that the US Marines used artillery like that on expeditions; apparently some of their field artillery was light enough so as to be loadable on mules.

Just an idea ;p

 

[Blasphemous]

I'm afraid that if the civilpedia automatically pops up making the game crash, the crash can't be avoided.
Will be fixed in 0.4, as soon as I get the definitive decision.

Errr... It doesn't pop up the pedia... Just that window that tells you research is complete and asks you what to research next. It has the large pediaicon in it.
Aren't the pediaicons.txt file and the pic itself completely independant of the biq? If they are then they can be edited/created to solve the problem without ruining my save.
About the american UU I would rather see the F-15 replaced with a more influential unit (maybe the idea of the WWII bomber with extra range, as suggested earlier?) along with the marine UU which would simply give America an in-game boost because of its placement (and also it's historically justified.) The point is that America cannot really bloom before the modern age in the game. From the moment it gets "discovered" it has alot of work to do before reaching world power status, and for a nation that for the last few decades has been so immensly important and will probably continue to do so in one way or another till the end of the game's scope (2050), it's only fair to allow her to have military power in the era in which America has been into international war.

 

[Rhye]

The F-15????
The F-15 is gone since a long time!! Have a look at the tree, or at America!


however, I'll put the USMC in the 0.4, together with the governments and some tweaks to Grand Battery and Palace Guards, and Pedia fixes

 

[Blasphemous]

Oh, the B-52 was in after all... Horton, you confused me well. =P
(But what I said on the subject is still true.)

 

[Aeon221]

YES!!!

Fi-nal-ly!

Huah marines! ;p

I knew you would see the light!

NOW, about the Russian nuclear weapon; don't you think a T-35 or T-65 would make more sense for the Russians than the big bomb?

America was the one famous for oodles of nuclear weapons, and we all agreed it would be a bad idea for them... sooo does it make sense for Russia, famous for its massive army and brilliantly designed MiGs to have a nuke?

Or how about a cheaper base (industrial era) infantry unit that does not become obsolete? With higher defense, but lower hp?

I would say that a well-statted MiG might be the best choice for Russia (considering just how amazing those things are) in terms of coolness, but a good cheap infantry unit would make the most sense in terms of utility.

They all make sense with history, so its your choice. Its just not fair to stick Russia with an ICBM UU, something that will never be used, when there are so many other choices out there!

I love this game ;p