Role Play Challenge: Pericles, Greek God of Peace
- Thread starter madscientist
- Start date
Randylama
Chieftain
I like your city planning maps; really helps us see what you see...I agree that the #1 priority should be NE to grab the stone and block off the NW, but do you really think # 6 is going to be available that long? Shouldn't your #2 be SE to ensure you have access to the Southern peninsula? Won't the potential sites to the NW be available long after the ones to the South are swallowed up by Toku?...
keep up the good work; I don't get to play enough (my games sometimes languish a week until I can get back to them again), threads like this satisfy my CIV4 craving while at work; thanks
keep up the good work; I don't get to play enough (my games sometimes languish a week until I can get back to them again), threads like this satisfy my CIV4 craving while at work; thanks
I just find these resource heavy starts, even if they're "naturally" produced through constant map regeneration, to be counter-productive to the goals of the thread.
Your restricted ruleset is intended to showcase superior skill. That's usually what one is looking for when self-imposing additional rules.
But these starts...
They're so good they offset whatever rules you may be attempting to play by.
I just wonder if the strategy forums are the right place for this series. You're not showcasing skill, you're showcasing role-playing, and use obscene starts to accomidate this.
I'd have very much respect for your role-playing goals if the starts weren't so fantastic. Map regeneration spam doesn't show skill, it shows the type of lack of skill the Democrat party wishes upon all US citizens; equality through universal failure is their motto.
In terms of difficulty, with the capital site and the ruleset taken into consideration, this game is definatly easier than Monarch. Possibly Prince, maybe even Noble.
As I said, I wonder if this series belongs in the strategy forum. I argue that it doesn't. Strategy would have dictated moving 1SE. Even just one resource to your west wouldn't have overcome this. I would even say you must have known those additional resources were there.
I don't know if any of this has been discussed before. It's possible the very premise of the RPC is that every start is fantastic. I don't mean to upset the discussion of this particular game.
I just don't see the point of engaging in a variant (aka a self-imposed ruleset) when you prop it up with a crutch (monster map regeneration for monster starts). I see variants as a means of adding challenge to the game. There's nothing challenging about this start, even with two enemies ten or fewer tiles away. The start is so good that it negates virtually all challenge the role-playing rules offer.
Settling in place was always the correct answer. Not because it's the best site (1SE is better based on the screenshot), but because (you knew) there would be so many resources. The strategy is eliminated. I can immediatly tell that me and BARBEERIAN were the only two who didn't play the save, because we're the only two offering proper advice on where to settle.
If I really cared, I'd ask that you remove the term Challenge from the title. This isn't a role-playing challenge. It's a role-playing story. I could ask a moderator to move it to the stories forum, because that's where it belongs.
I'm mature enough to just not read the thread, which is what I will do from now on.
vanatteveldt
Emperor
I hate to be feeding the trolls, but here I go...
I'm mature enough to just not read the thread, which is what I will do from now on.
When someone writes that he is "so mature", it is generally an indication of the opposite. This seems to be one of those cases.
If Mad Schientist wanted to show superior skill, do you really think he would play at monarch??
If he wanted to show superior skill, would he really post those two alexander games?
He is quite straight about the fact that he thinks his RPC's are a nice way to get more fun out of the game, rather than perfecting a strategy or skill set. His threads are quite popular, so many people seem to like the concept. You don't like it? don't frigging open the threads. it's that easy!
Aside: why on earth do you not believe that these starts are random? He got some good starts and some lousy ones. He may have regenerated some starts that did not look promising or did not fit with his intended start. This is allows in HOF games, so I would not call it cheating.
You have some merit that this might be more at home in the stories and tales section, but these are really roleplaying stories, with dialog and prose. This forum is used a lot for posting walkthroughs at various levels, and this is certainly a walkthrough. So, either ask for a new 'example games' forum, or ignore the obvious example game threads in this forum (RPC, ALC, lonely hearts etc).
O, don't forget to breath out, relax, and enjoy the game and the forums. And while you're at it thank MAd Scientist for taking the time to post these games to the forum and keep us amused.
I'm mature enough to just not read the thread, which is what I will do from now on.
When someone writes that he is "so mature", it is generally an indication of the opposite. This seems to be one of those cases.
If Mad Schientist wanted to show superior skill, do you really think he would play at monarch??
If he wanted to show superior skill, would he really post those two alexander games?
He is quite straight about the fact that he thinks his RPC's are a nice way to get more fun out of the game, rather than perfecting a strategy or skill set. His threads are quite popular, so many people seem to like the concept. You don't like it? don't frigging open the threads. it's that easy!
Aside: why on earth do you not believe that these starts are random? He got some good starts and some lousy ones. He may have regenerated some starts that did not look promising or did not fit with his intended start. This is allows in HOF games, so I would not call it cheating.
You have some merit that this might be more at home in the stories and tales section, but these are really roleplaying stories, with dialog and prose. This forum is used a lot for posting walkthroughs at various levels, and this is certainly a walkthrough. So, either ask for a new 'example games' forum, or ignore the obvious example game threads in this forum (RPC, ALC, lonely hearts etc).
O, don't forget to breath out, relax, and enjoy the game and the forums. And while you're at it thank MAd Scientist for taking the time to post these games to the forum and keep us amused.
Ummm... didn't mad just say that he doesn't edit his maps?As far as the games goes I would be looking to settle to the south soon after city 1 if you have enough workers/ironworking to make short work of the jungle. I would also be looking for high food sites, if planning on a cultural victory for running loads of artists later in the game.
Randylama
Chieftain
take another look at the initial start sceen; looks like an ordinary random map to me...two resources, clam and cow, good but not great; only AFTER settling did the 2nd, and 3rd clam appear along with the wheat...there isn't any gold or gems nearby, no marble or stone, no horses or copper, maybe even no iron...just how is this a start that would invalidate the process of learning from watching Mad play it out?? He has the makings of a mega food city for specialists, but he may be crippled without strategic resources (if he doesn't get that copper SE and ends up without iron) aside from horses...
Threads like this SHOULD be in this forum, this is a peaceful strategy guide/walkthrough...the rest of the RPG rules just add flavor and make it fun, if you don't get that it's your problem I guess; it's not like this forum has limited space and Mad is taking someone else's by being here either...
keep up the good work Mad, don't forget to keep the wife and kids happy too (what are their happiness caps I wonder? With my wife, it seems to vary a lot)
Threads like this SHOULD be in this forum, this is a peaceful strategy guide/walkthrough...the rest of the RPG rules just add flavor and make it fun, if you don't get that it's your problem I guess; it's not like this forum has limited space and Mad is taking someone else's by being here either...
keep up the good work Mad, don't forget to keep the wife and kids happy too (what are their happiness caps I wonder? With my wife, it seems to vary a lot)
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Well, all I can say is that these maps are always as they first popout. I do not regen the first start and I do not enter worldbuilder unless I state it as with Asoka's game and Al I.
Superior skill???? I don't recall ever claiming that. These RPC's are primarily for FUN and ENTERTAINMENT! They also include certain specific strategies or economies, as I describe in the sumamry page and the OP of each RPC. This one describes playing a peaceful game and values diplomacy, so if I am "stacking the deck" or regenrating why on earth would I allow the most difficulut AI to get along with right next door??
Have you ever read the Willem RPC, or the Al II game where I was very pressed early by Cyrus. How about Peter II where I was really penned in???
No I think they do belong. They are walkthough's for specific strategies which newbies and the average player can use to learn a specific strat;
Mighty Khan: demonstrated that you can raze everything to support an economy while conquering the world.
Seafaring Victoria: Demonstrated that a Trade Route economy works well with key wonders.
Bismark the Master Builder: Was basically a walkthough of OBSOLETE's wonderspamm style of play.
HOLY SAL!: Demonstrated the power of the religion based economy, and also the ability to get a cultural win without any artist specialists or Great Artists.
Monty the Mad Scientist: A pure SE game.
Willem: The power of the Dutch UU/UB for a water heavy map.
Persians in Space: A CE game for a Space win
Shaka, a Gentleman of Culture: Where you can get a culture win with any leader if planned early enough, and you do not need cathedrals!
Agustus: A OCC walkthough.
Peter the Spy: How NOT to run an espionage economy.
Al I, II, III: How to wage (or not to) war!
Some are more for fun without a set strat such as Washington, Asoka.
I disagree about the starts but agree about the democrats! I'm a GOPer myself!!!!
After killing myself in the last few RPC, is it a crime to enjoy an easier game once in a while???? I am a Monarch leverl player who wins rarely on emperor. Every RPC has been Monarch except for the first (The Mighty Khan was at Prince) and the accidental Al II (emperor). Or perhaps I should only play a game on-ine if I can conpete at Diety?
So the thread does not belong here because I settled in place which is usually the best thing to do 90% of the time??? You either believe me or not, I really could care less. But given my past RPCs and the honesty in my changes or restarts don't you think I deserve the benefit of the doubt
As I mentioned in my summary thread, all comment and ridicules are welcomed, so fire away!!!!
I already discussed the map regeneration issue, your repeating yourself!!! The varients are added not for challenge but for fun!!!! It's also having a little fun with the Ai's particular style of play when they are the AI. Pericles is a pretty noble AI to play against, thus I will follow all the rules. Some are swine, like his brother AL, so Al was able to cheat a bit in I and II (curiously, there was no need to cheat in III). But look at the Monty game where it was in the rules to cheat (and he did!) but he also followed the rule about running an SE all game, and that was strictly for demonstration purposes!!!
I disgreed, so what. There was no prior knowledge, my reasons we outlined very clearly, and I EXPECTED seafood based on past experience in the game. The wheat was a bonus. There was no benefit to settle the floodplains IMHO.
Go ahead and ask. The moderators can look at all the other RPCs and make a decision if it belongs or not. My guess is they would read the responses and probably agree it's useful here.
The thread is here for you to read or not read.
But I will state this, the game has a lot more dimension than simply following the ruels of the game and looking for the best and most direct way to win, or even the most challenging way to win. It's about enjoyment and entertainemtn and I view it as a hobby, particularly posting these RPCs game which take a substantial amont of time, as Sis or anyone else who ever posted a game can tell you. I am honestly suprised it has caught on as much as it has, about 6000 views per RPC by the end. And since almost all other posts have been positive and appreciative, I think I'll continue posting.
So maybe the next RPC will be the annoying French where I have to harrass the English all game. OK, how do I change Chuchhill's name to NARES?
(just kidding)Finally, I do appreciate the time to actually discuss these things. I am surprised noone was complaining the RPCs did not belong here before, but I assumed everyone was OK with it. If I remember Slobbering Bear origionally considered putting them in stories and tales, but my games are not true historical recreations, in fact most of these leaders would be rolling over in their graves (anyone checked Washington's at Mt. Vernon lately???). And as far as the name, slobbering bear got me started on this so I think I'll honor him and keep it.
Don't fret, Ill retire from this series once I have embarressed myself with all 52 leaders!
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
A dumb question I have been meaning to ask, from a more mature poster (just turned 45 yesterday!) who is definitely not up on blogging/posting lingo (took me a year lurking this site before I had the courage to post).
What does troll or trolling exactly mean ( besides a way to catch fish).
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Allow me to be the first in this thread to wish you a happy birthday for yesterday, old-timer.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Thanks paradign!
I didn't notice much discussion, to be honest. The "discussion," or lack of any real discussion, left me with the overall impression that these maps are structured.
In regards to the second sentence I quote, I've taken a long break from Civ. It's possible that these kind of super-starts are far more common in Warlords/BTS. I stopped playing shortly before Warlords released.
I don't think you've seen anyone else complain because most of the "elite" lurkers on this forum tend to remain silent. Which is where I'll be heading.
@vanatteveldt
This isn't that other game. These forums don't house trolls. I'll leave it at that, out of respect to madscientist.
I forget the file name, but it's easily done.madscientist said:
BARBEERIAN
Prince
Dotmap:
It's pretty solid overall except for City #5. I wouldn't settle in the order you have them though, I'd settle them in the following order:
City 1 > Great spot. Stone and 2 food, river nearby for easy farming, and did I mention STONE for the good old fashioned Pyramids!
City 3 > 2 food, Gems. Sure the gems will have to wait for IW but you'll still have the Cows and Corn right away (have I mentioned I <3 creative's fast border pops!) and a few forested things to chop so it'll be a solid early city that'll turn into a powerhouse post-IW. If you want it to be a Commerce/Science city cottage it up (mix in enough farms to get good growth with 2 scientists running). If it's going to be a pure Science city farm, farm, farm and run max Scientists. Personally I go pure farms with this type of city with Pericles since he's Phi but I'm biased towards pure SE's.
City 7 > At least 1 Seafood and 2 nice hills. Solid early city, good spot for Moai.
City 6 (Note: Maybe settle this before City #7 if Toku is threatening to beat you to it.) > Not much food for fast early growth but at least it's got the 1 flood plain and some grassland to farm so it has potential.
City 4 > Solid long term potential but you need IW before you settle this., tonnes of jungle needs to be chopped or it will just be an unhealthy tiny city for a long time. I would wait until you get IW then send 2/3 workers to start clearing jungle before you settle it. Chop all the riverside jungles so you can farm asap.
City 2 > Aside from horsies it's a meh city early on. It does have potential to be a pretty good site but it needs chain irrigation to make those grasslands start paying dividends so it's not worth settling it too early unless you really need horses.
City 5 > If there's no seafood lurking in the shadows I wouldn't settle that spot until after CS. Personally if I were playing with a limit of 6 settled cities this site would remain barren if there's no seafood. Maybe after more scouting you'll discover some seafood in that area. If not, try to find another spot for your final settler.
It's pretty solid overall except for City #5. I wouldn't settle in the order you have them though, I'd settle them in the following order:
City 1 > Great spot. Stone and 2 food, river nearby for easy farming, and did I mention STONE for the good old fashioned Pyramids!
City 3 > 2 food, Gems. Sure the gems will have to wait for IW but you'll still have the Cows and Corn right away (have I mentioned I <3 creative's fast border pops!) and a few forested things to chop so it'll be a solid early city that'll turn into a powerhouse post-IW. If you want it to be a Commerce/Science city cottage it up (mix in enough farms to get good growth with 2 scientists running). If it's going to be a pure Science city farm, farm, farm and run max Scientists. Personally I go pure farms with this type of city with Pericles since he's Phi but I'm biased towards pure SE's.
City 7 > At least 1 Seafood and 2 nice hills. Solid early city, good spot for Moai.
City 6 (Note: Maybe settle this before City #7 if Toku is threatening to beat you to it.) > Not much food for fast early growth but at least it's got the 1 flood plain and some grassland to farm so it has potential.
City 4 > Solid long term potential but you need IW before you settle this., tonnes of jungle needs to be chopped or it will just be an unhealthy tiny city for a long time. I would wait until you get IW then send 2/3 workers to start clearing jungle before you settle it. Chop all the riverside jungles so you can farm asap.
City 2 > Aside from horsies it's a meh city early on. It does have potential to be a pretty good site but it needs chain irrigation to make those grasslands start paying dividends so it's not worth settling it too early unless you really need horses.
City 5 > If there's no seafood lurking in the shadows I wouldn't settle that spot until after CS. Personally if I were playing with a limit of 6 settled cities this site would remain barren if there's no seafood. Maybe after more scouting you'll discover some seafood in that area. If not, try to find another spot for your final settler.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
BTS tends to give you very good starts, with numerous resources within the capital BFC. It is not uncommon to have this sort of start for a BTS start and I would say it's about a 7-8 out of scale of 1-10. If you look at all the BTS walkthoughs (there ar emany and you do not have to look at mine) you'll see that this is a good but not a cheating start. Since you haven't played warlords or BTS I now understand your skepticism.
The only BTS starts I generally see where you get only one food resource, contain all forrests on a river which can be chopped out and usually landlocked.
I am not sure who the elite players are so I do not know if they post or not. I do know there are posters who comment who I learned how to play this game from.
Goodluck!
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
I agree. City 1 for sure. I like the sourthen most gems city (#3) alot as the culture will likely net those horses but my chief concern is settling the 2, 6, 7 area to Keep Toku out. Otherwise #3 could be isolated with no option to get contact to it.
I gave more options than needed (we cans ettle only 5 more) but I figured we lose some of those sites.
CivMcNut
Having Fun At It
Interesting start for the game looks like. I bet Toku is gonna run up there and come right after your turf.
My thinking as I looked through screens about city placement would be to go for the ones first that box him out best, I'm guessing that would be cities 1 and 3.
Once you keep him from Rexing all around you, you can go about settling all the best resource spots.
My thinking as I looked through screens about city placement would be to go for the ones first that box him out best, I'm guessing that would be cities 1 and 3.
Once you keep him from Rexing all around you, you can go about settling all the best resource spots.
BARBEERIAN
Prince
Don't forget about your fast border pops and their ability to block land (and this isn't aggressive blocking so I think it's within the rules). City #1's fat-x will almost entirely block Toku's access the northern area (City #2 n 5) so you can settle them later. Once City #1 hits 300
Toku cannot penetrate the northern area without OB (which I doubt he'll offer you due to border pressure diplo hits).Then proceed to block out your southern lands by settling City #3 then #6 asap. These two cities Fat-X's (15-turns after settling with Cre, yay!) will completely block Toku's access to City #7 unless he really wants to go end-around with his settler (which he won't, he'll probably aim for the Banana/Gems city or the Pig/Horse city on the eastern side of that southern land).
