Rule Amendments

[cIV_khanh93]

Have we set up a system for amending the rules yet? I think that may be necessary. (similar to the US' constitutional amendment process?)

 

[General_W]

The current ruleset is on it's way to overwhelming ratification.
The vote will close in 2 days, and then it will be official.

From then, the only reason it should be necessary to amend the rules is if there is a new exploit discovered. That's governed by rule 4.3

4.3 -- New Exploits
If you discover a new exploit it is your duty to inform all participants (via Game Forum). Amendments for banning newly discovered exploits will require a majority vote.

Other than this - I think it's probably a bad idea to allow the rules to be changed in midgame. Maybe if it were a 100% unanimous vote by the teams, it'd be ok. Otherwise there's a risk of one team effectively being punished by the majority.

If we ever get that kind of overwhelming support (100% Unanimous) for a change, we can modify the rules at that point even if we don't have a specific clause for it.

Personally - I don't see it happening

 

[cIV_khanh93]

Well I was thinking that that kind of vote would be up to individual players anyway.

 

[peter grimes]

Proposed Amendment:

1.4
Teams may not contact each other until they have met in-game. Meta-game conversations in the UN are exempted (such as votes on rule-set amendments )

In order to go into effect, this rule must be approved by 3 of the 5 teams.

 

[Niklas]

Team 4 unanimously votes to approve the proposed amendment.

 

[DaveShack]

Often the host has to reload a pitboss due to computer problems, lost connections, or a player forgetting to exit to main menu before exiting to desktop. I think we should have a rule requiring teams to faithfully recreate whatever moves they might have made after the point which was reloaded. Here is my suggestion.

x.y Recreating actions after a reload

In the event the game is reloaded to a previous point in time for any reason, each team must faithfully recreate any in-game actions they took after that point, to the best of their ability. Teams are encouraged to keep an explicit log of actions taken to facilitate the best recreation possible.

 

[Lord Parkin]

x.y Recreating actions after a reload

In the event the game is reloaded to a previous point in time for any reason, each team must faithfully recreate any in-game actions they took after that point, to the best of their ability. Teams are encouraged to keep an explicit log of actions taken to facilitate the best recreation possible.

Of course, combats may play out differently, due to different RNG rolls.

But overall, I agree that this is probably the fairest way to deal with reloads.

 

[DaveShack]

Of course, at the point the game departs from previous events then there is no requirement to continue along the same path. Need to write that in somehow too.

BTW what prompted me to think of adding this is an incident in another pitboss. At least three of the vocal posters here are in that game, and have seen first hand how it can get ugly.

 

[oyzar]

If the game is replayed EXACTLY the same the RNG will also be the same since it is sequential turns.

 

[peter grimes]

I think the language about logging turn actions should be stronger:

Teams are encouraged to must keep an explicit log of actions taken to facilitate the best recreation possible.

 

[oyzar]

I think the language about logging turn actions should be stronger:

Teams are encouraged to must keep an explicit log of actions taken to facilitate the best recreation possible.

This would mean a lot more work for the turn player(especially in the late game) and as such discourage people from take that position... By naming all units differently and just take a screen shot of event log before ending your turn things should be fine enough...

 

[General_W]

I think the verbiage proposed by DaveShack is (near) perfect.

We need to strike a balance between "fair" and "fun." This is a classic example of not making the rules too onerous while still preserving a high level of fairness.

IF we want to change DaveShack's proposal at all, maybe we could add a line at the end of something like: "Each team must, at a minimum, preserve a screenshot of any battle & event logs until they are 5 turns old."

This would cover any high-risk items where a replay could very significantly affect things.

I'm ok either way.

 

[oyzar]

I think the verbiage proposed by DaveShack is (near) perfect.

We need to strike a balance between "fair" and "fun." This is a classic example of not making the rules too onerous while still preserving a high level of fairness.

IF we want to change DaveShack's proposal at all, maybe we could add a line at the end of something like: "Each team must, at a minimum, preserve a screenshot of any battle & event logs until they are 5 turns old."

This would cover any high-risk items where a replay could very significantly affect things.

I'm ok either way.

This will only work if you can replay things which might be a problem(see the thread on historical saves)...

 

[James009]

Note: If this ruleset passes: everyone is bound to honor it - even if you voted to reject!

I'd like to pose the question as to how we enforce these rules? I see no written actions or incorporated measures to which you can penalize a civilization which violates these rules.

What is "bound to honor"? That's not even a proper legal term and its not actually written into the proposed ruleset!

Enforcement Actions:
Things are "forbidden", "in violation", and "will be harshly dealt with" but with what? Technically, right now you have a big "slap on the wrist penalty" or "loss of respect". The penalties for violating rules need to be set, simple, and clear.

Simply put this needs a stick.

Enforcer:
Also, it's not written as to who even enforces these rules. Do we have some sort of an international enforcement organization (ex. UN), is it the civilizations themselves in a sort of contract, or are they enforced by a neutral game moderator? That needs to be cleared up and written in as well.

I know some of you may see this as mute or just nitpicking but I've had past experience in other games that have made me adopt this position. If you don't have enforcement the rules will eventually be broken and you will be left with no way to "legally" take action.

 

[oyzar]

We have neutral game moderators...

 

[General_W]

yeah - there's Ginger_Ale if things really go south.

But frankly - I have never seen anyone seriously suggest that a team break a rule on purpose. Even if there's someone here that would do that - I can't imagine a whole team going along with it.

The rules are mainly there to prevent someone from rationalizing away why something is "ok" to do. If someone decides to wildly cheat, I expect their own team will be the ones to discover it, report it, and probably take action on their own supported by moderators.

If it's the kind of thing that needs help in fixing - I'm sure we'll be able to get support/build a consensus on the best way to make it right.

 

[oyzar]

1.5 Teams are not allowed to play ahead on a downloaded version of the current save (that includes any and all actions).

 

[James009]

I suggest, for the sake of future tradition (and life skills), that you put enforcement rules in as an amendment into the current rules. This is a good thing to do regardless of if you think its necessary or not.

Especially if you want to speak technically and get into that crap, "If it ain't written, it ain't law".

 

[General_W]

Team SANCTA (team 3) unanimously approves of proposed amendment 1.4

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

1.5 Teams are not allowed to play ahead on a downloaded version of the current save (that includes any and all actions).

agreed strongly